defending blinds

im still a little unsure about how vigorously i should defend my blinds , generally i dont bother too much , in microstakes 5NL 6 max i will defend it if i have the hand to do so or i beleive the player will fold if i pressure him , so i only have 2 requirements they are
1, good hand
2, player whom i believe i can beat or who,ll fold when pressured
what else should i be looking for , at what stakes does blind defending become important , how badly would it affect your win rate if you just didnt place much importance on it and finally can anyone point me in the right direction to learn strategy on defence of the blinds ?

I think more important than having a good hand is what kind of odds are you getting to make a call. When there are multiple callers then your calling range becomes very wide in the blinds

What else should i be looking for ?
Well things like what kind of player has opened and what is his position, what are effective stacks, your hand - based on this you should be looking for spots to play aggressive if you can like three betting, trapping or simply folding.

At what stakes does blind defending becomes important ?
every stake i guess. Unless you are in a tournament and you do not have enough stack so you cannot afford to defend most times.

how badly would it affect your win rate ?
depends how well you play at these spots. If you just keep folding unless you have premiums then obviously it will dent more as you would keep bleeding every round.

strategies ?
well there are so many variable involved that a paragraph or a few points is not enough. So look for strategy articles here or online and i am sure you would find loads of em.

I don't believe in blind defending yet at the level I am playing(10 NL). On the other hand I am very vigorous in defending my button against the blinds and perhaps I sometimes over play it but even with junk cards position can make all the difference. The only players I bog down against on blind stealing are the calling station fish who I don't want to bluff. But I am always in battle with the regs who 3 bet a lot in the blinds.

I just feel its really not worth it getting so creative OOP at the micro level.

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Thinker_145 said:

I don't believe in blind defending yet at the level I am playing(10 NL). On the other hand I am very vigorous in defending my button against the blinds and perhaps I sometimes over play it but even with junk cards position can make all the difference. The only players I bog down against on blind stealing are the calling station fish who I don't want to bluff. But I am always in battle with the regs who 3 bet a lot in the blinds.

I just feel its really not worth it getting so creative OOP at the micro level.

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I think its a good practice, no matter the stake, if you are folding to 3 bets in the sb/bb and only reraising with premium then im gonna 3 bet more than you get a hand to defend with. So ill profit from you being so tight.

Not to mention once you show you can get creative and defend then the button or sb offen fold to you until they have a hand.

So if its a case of risking a slightly bigger amount and getting in the head of the button raiser vs folding to the majority of their raises and being predictable when you reraise (ie clearly hold a good hand I can scrap my 93 off suit easy and just 3 bet you again the next round)

then I pick the first every time

Im still new to cash, but see how many time someone 3 bets on the button, and give a tightish image of yourself for a few rounds, then if they are 3 bet opening every button and the sb folds im going to resteal.
If they reraise again I might consider folding but most of the time they dont. (in my short experience with 5nl players)

I only adjust against habitual stealers. Im beginning to 3bet or fold almost always from the blinds. BB is definitely one of my leaks, probably calling too widely and being too stubborn against SB steals.

playtheman said:

I think its a good practice, no matter the stake, if you are folding to 3 bets in the sb/bb and only reraising with premium then im gonna 3 bet more than you get a hand to defend with. So ill profit from you being so tight.

Not to mention once you show you can get creative and defend then the button or sb offen fold to you until they have a hand.

So if its a case of risking a slightly bigger amount and getting in the head of the button raiser vs folding to the majority of their raises and being predictable when you reraise (ie clearly hold a good hand I can scrap my 93 off suit easy and just 3 bet you again the next round)

then I pick the first every time

Im still new to cash, but see how many time someone 3 bets on the button, and give a tightish image of yourself for a few rounds, then if they are 3 bet opening every button and the sb folds im going to resteal.
If they reraise again I might consider folding but most of the time they dont. (in my short experience with 5nl players)

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My calling range is pretty wide when the blind 3 bets my button. I am not afraid of pulling a huge bluff on later streets if I sense weakness and I have done it plenty of times. I just don't believe being aggressive from the SB/BB can be profitable just my opinion and I could be wrong.

And I disagree with those who say that you should either 3 bet or fold from the blinds vs the button. If you have good understanding of your opponent you can just call and reevaluate the situation on every street.

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Thinker_145 said:

My calling range is pretty wide when the blind 3 bets my button. I am not afraid of pulling a huge bluff on later streets if I sense weakness and I have done it plenty of times. I just don't believe being aggressive from the SB/BB can be profitable just my opinion and I could be wrong.

And I disagree with those who say that you should either 3 bet or fold from the blinds vs the button. If you have good understanding of your opponent you can just call and reevaluate the situation on every street.

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Assuming you can out play someone while OOP.

Ok so you miss the flop, but you arent sure if your opponent hit or missed either.

Do you check and let him c-bet? if he does are you gonna call and bluff the next street, you dont really know where you stand.

By calling you are being passive, he has taken control by raising, the aggressor wins,

Its like they say, the kid that doesnt want to fight leaves with a black eye.

I agree with most of what everyone else has already stated. I don't look to defend my blinds simply to defend them, I need to have good reason. But the fact that you already have 1 BB in the pot does open your range a bit and allows for a little more speculation. The only time I truly play any 2 cards to defend my blind is when the player in question has raised every time it is folded to them in a blatant attempt to steal. I find it is especially important in cash games to play back against these people in an effort to back them off.

playtheman said:

Assuming you can out play someone while OOP.

Ok so you miss the flop, but you arent sure if your opponent hit or missed either.

Do you check and let him c-bet? if he does are you gonna call and bluff the next street, you dont really know where you stand.

By calling you are being passive, he has taken control by raising, the aggressor wins,

Its like they say, the kid that doesnt want to fight leaves with a black eye.

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Calling a marginal hand against someone with a low c bet stat is easier since we know we are beat if he bets the flop.

However if the c bet stat is very high on both flop and turn then it gets more complicated. The good thing is that if we hit our hand we will get paid off but if we don't then we have to bluff or give up.

There are players who have lower turn c bet stat and these players we can bluff on the river after they check the turn.

What do you do if you 3 bet with AJ, get flat called by the button and miss the flop completely? Continue betting with no idea where we stand? The pot gets scary big with that sort of play and it gets increasingly difficult to let go of the hand.

The biggest problem with this whole button vs blind battle is that people will get actual monster hands in those spots and it just gets so difficult to know. It can all be a guessing game and I'll much rather be doing it in position.

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Thinker_145 said:

Calling a marginal hand against someone with a low c bet stat is easier since we know we are beat if he bets the flop.

However if the c bet stat is very high on both flop and turn then it gets more complicated. The good thing is that if we hit our hand we will get paid off but if we don't then we have to bluff or give up.

There are players who have lower turn c bet stat and these players we can bluff on the river after they check the turn.

What do you do if you 3 bet with AJ, get flat called by the button and miss the flop completely? Continue betting with no idea where we stand? The pot gets scary big with that sort of play and it gets increasingly difficult to let go of the hand.

The biggest problem with this whole button vs blind battle is that people will get actual monster hands in those spots and it just gets so difficult to know. It can all be a guessing game and I'll much rather be doing it in position.

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These are some good points.
I think I was thinking of how I make 3 bet plays against chronic stealers.
If we can out play them by flat calling, maybe we can out play them after they call our reraise. Again being OOP isnt ideal, I think it depends on the opponent and situation.

Good to discuss these things though, food for thought

Nice discussion.

playtheman said:

Im still new to cash, but see how many time someone 3 bets on the button, and give a tightish image of yourself for a few rounds, then if they are 3 bet opening every button and the sb folds im going to resteal.

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Hi,
really not want to be rude, just some general advise, because although I believe most people will understand what you mean, probably some might not.
3 bet opening every button is not possible.
A 3 bet is if someone opens with a raise and someone acting behind is raising this opening bet. The latter is called a 3 bet.
I assume what you declare a 3 bet open from the button, actually is an open 3 BB bet.
If now SB or BB responds to this with for example a raise to 8 BB that is called a 3 bet.

As for the topic itsself, defending blinds , or maybe better said, the range you are gonna defend with really depends on the tightness of the player who opens I think.
However showing you're willing to fight back every now and than, pretty often makes stealing players back off for a few orbits.

10058765 said:

Hi,
really not want to be rude, just some general advise, because although I believe most people will understand what you mean, probably some might not.
3 bet opening every button is not possible.
A 3 bet is if someone opens with a raise and someone acting behind is raising this opening bet. The latter is called a 3 bet.
I assume what you declare a 3 bet open from the button, actually is an open 3 BB bet.
If now SB or BB responds to this with for example a raise to 8 BB that is called a 3 bet.

As for the topic itsself, defending blinds , or maybe better said, the range you are gonna defend with really depends on the tightness of the player who opens I think.
However showing you're willing to fight back every now and than, pretty often makes stealing players back off for a few orbits.

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Yeah thats what I meant, and thanks for correcting me
I dont mind being correct when Im wrong, Im not 100% on all the terminology! So dont worry about sounding rude, Im not a 'PC' dickhead lmao

Simon33 said:

I believe that they should not protect the blinds. Pay attention to the game at the position

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Agree...