Crazy Loose 2-5 NL

V

Versyte

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Total posts
1
Chips
0
I apologize if there is a similar thread to this (it's my first post) BUT:

Tonight I moved from a broken table to another 2-5 game. 3 or 4 people had stacks of a couple thousand, with myself at around 700. There was constant straddling, Almost always with a big raise and 4-5 callers. It was basically a 5-10 bingo game. Pots were normally 100-200 preflop. I was drooling. But I could never get any cards, and when I did I wasn't sure I wanted to pay so much pre flop with my stack. KQ suited, 87 suited...but no big pairs. I'm used to the traditional raise with 1 or 2 callers and Play post flop. I prefer to keep the pot small pre flop and go from there, but the way these people were playing eliminated that approach for me. I didn't want to get up and leave but I had to...it had become an absolute game of chance. I felt like if I played with them I would have just bled my stack away on pre flop calls and raises..How have you all handled being in games like this? I understand it's a dream scenario, to be at a table with horrendous players making massive bets (in relation to the game's posted stakes) but I felt out of my comfort zone for the first time in a long time. Thoughts?
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
preflop.. big card hands go way up in value (KQ is a monster), speculative hands go down in value... from there.. hit top pair and put money in :). Variance will be pretty high but edge is massive.
 
P

Phlegmatic

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 25, 2015
Total posts
24
Chips
0
I'd probably adjust and become tight and just fold it around until I got a monster preflop hand and then check raise the flop or turn depending on the action. I feel table image would play a big part there and hopefully skim a few decent sized pots away while only losing maybe 4 or 5 big and little blinds in the process. In a game like that it sounds like you're gonna need the cards so I think patience would've been profitable.
 
S

subdylzep

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Total posts
143
Chips
0
Honestly thats like half of the live tables ive ever been at. They are always like that and always crazy raises w crazy plays and absolutely obscene amounts of money constantly being placed in the pot. Im guessing you were out of your comfort zone because you didnt have a bankroll to be playing the game, which means you were playing w basically scared money. In this scenario KQ or suited 87 isnt even bad, KQ is pretty decent, but i mean you have to be patient and then get your money in good or well the best you can. Its going to be uncomfortable but once you hit and start gaining a stack you will be able to play with them and realize that its not such a bad game, its just a different style of play. I see it constantly, Im from the Pittsburgh area of the US and thats how most play is done around these parts. Generally until we get to 25 - 50 blinds people are playing wild like that. But its important to note you should be playing within your BANKROLL LIMITS!... Not to say im not guilty of playing out of them, we all are ... but to be playing 2/5 NL you should have 500X100 so 50,000 bankroll, Im guessing if you had 50K and were sitting w 700 it wouldnt bother you too much to play a hand or 2 preflop for 50$ or so. Right? This is why the pros stress so much bankroll management because these games are always like this. The only place you will find tight standard play for a 1/2 or 2/5 table is online. Where maybe 1 or 2 callers to the flop, most of the time none. They can play so many tables at a time they can be very selective and wait and not have to risk a lot of money on marginal hands. This is reversed live because obviously you see so many fewer hands and can only play that 1 table, So they play much looser and much more wild. ALL THAT BEING SAID

You did the right thing. You realized you were out of your league, outside your bankroll, and uncomfortable w the style of play at the table. Ditch it and come back when you have more of bankroll or feel more comfortable w the players and their style of play, GL in the future.
 
6

6bet me

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Total posts
835
Chips
0
This is a dream game. I would stay at this table as long as I could.

In games like these, the SPR (stack to pot ratio) is going to be small and thus the value of speculative hands goes down, whilst the value of big pairs and high cards goes up. Just wait for a big hand in the range of {99+, AJ+, KQ}, look to flop top pair or better, then get your stack in and hope for the best. There will be players that will stack off with Q8s on a Q53 board and you can dominate them with KQ/AQ hands. Patience is a virtue in games like these. If you are card dead and have to fold every hand for 2 hours straight, then so be it. When you win that $2000 pot, the 2 hours of waiting will be worth it. And even if you lose, you can still be happy about the fact that you made a play that was massively +EV and will be hugely profitable in the long run.
 
sar1767

sar1767

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 15, 2016
Total posts
82
Chips
0
In the game everything may happen. For example I lost my AA to 7 2.
I raised on preflop partner called. And flop came 2 4 J then I raised again, partner called again then turn came 7 and on the river again 7. I did all in and I lost
 
J

j t

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Total posts
84
Chips
0
I apologize if there is a similar thread to this (it's my first post) BUT:

Tonight I moved from a broken table to another 2-5 game. 3 or 4 people had stacks of a couple thousand, with myself at around 700. There was constant straddling, Almost always with a big raise and 4-5 callers. It was basically a 5-10 bingo game. Pots were normally 100-200 preflop. I was drooling. But I could never get any cards, and when I did I wasn't sure I wanted to pay so much pre flop with my stack. KQ suited, 87 suited...but no big pairs. I'm used to the traditional raise with 1 or 2 callers and Play post flop. I prefer to keep the pot small pre flop and go from there, but the way these people were playing eliminated that approach for me. I didn't want to get up and leave but I had to...it had become an absolute game of chance. I felt like if I played with them I would have just bled my stack away on pre flop calls and raises..How have you all handled being in games like this? I understand it's a dream scenario, to be at a table with horrendous players making massive bets (in relation to the game's posted stakes) but I felt out of my comfort zone for the first time in a long time. Thoughts?


Being in a game like that, its something you have to be prepaered for. either go hard or go hme!! that literally how you MUST look at it!
 
2

2tuzai

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Total posts
31
Awards
1
Chips
4
This is a dream game. I would stay at this table as long as I could.

In games like these, the SPR (stack to pot ratio) is going to be small and thus the value of speculative hands goes down, whilst the value of big pairs and high cards goes up. Just wait for a big hand in the range of {99+, AJ+, KQ}, look to flop top pair or better, then get your stack in and hope for the best. There will be players that will stack off with Q8s on a Q53 board and you can dominate them with KQ/AQ hands. Patience is a virtue in games like these. If you are card dead and have to fold every hand for 2 hours straight, then so be it. When you win that $2000 pot, the 2 hours of waiting will be worth it. And even if you lose, you can still be happy about the fact that you made a play that was massively +EV and will be hugely profitable in the long run.
Use this
 
D

donkcentralFF

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Total posts
539
Chips
0
Limit the amount of hands you play.. Caus playing the suited will bleed you in scenarios like this. Best advice is when you get hands that are the top of your range be VERY VERY aggressive.. Need to limit the amount of players who see the flop.. Less people see the flop more likely your A or K high is going to be the best hand and give you a better chance to push weak holdings out.. If this is a table your finding online, I would recommend not sitting down for a few sessions and just watching how it plays out.. Get an idea of their preflop raising/calling ranges.. Once you know where their at jump in and exploit..
 
R

ranma187

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Total posts
41
Chips
0
Patience is key. I was at an aggressive 1-2 game live like this, been sitting 3 hours, got a few cards preflop, flopped nothing, and stayed out of the way when people bet big. I started at 200, but by 3 hours i had 130 left. I had pocket 10's, some guy raised 25, I called. and so did 5 other people. Flop had a 10 making trips for me and the rest of the board was dry. OP bet 60. Just called and so did a couple others. Had 40 left behind on the river heads up against OP. I went all in. He said, "Wow such good odds to call." He called I showed my trip 10's, he mucked. Raked in a pot over 500. More than tripled my investment. I can only imagine what i would have made if it were a 2-5 game buying in for 100 BB's
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
Chips
0
The question would have been the same if you said "how do I NOT make money playing poker live?"

I disagree with the advice that you need 50k in your roll to sit with 500. That model is out of date and for BRM nits.

Sure, luck is GOING to be a FACTOR because it is short term. But give me somewhere between 3-5 BIs and I'm shoving to make THEM feel uncomfortable, and I'm going to either get unlucky every single time or I'm going to be sitting with the biggest stack at the table choosing when to risk my riches.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
I'm going to go against most people here and say that you don't want to tighten up and you are going to need to play a lot more hands than normal. Granted that you are better than everyone else at the table your going to be want to play a lot just because even though they are drooling even fish don't pay off nits live so you want to splash a bit to get max value when you do have skmethjng
 
2

2tuzai

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Total posts
31
Awards
1
Chips
4
I'm going to go against most people here and say that you don't want to tighten up and you are going to need to play a lot more hands than normal. Granted that you are better than everyone else at the table your going to be want to play a lot just because even though they are drooling even fish don't pay off nits live so you want to splash a bit to get max value when you do have skmethjng

U don`t think that one of the reason u are better because u don`t spew chip PF with marginals or even - EV calls ??? I would only play a lot if i can get HU vs my opponents, but i think its not a case at tables like this where u go MW almost ever single hand.. My game plan for this Aggression + Strong range.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
Chips
0
I'm going to go against most people here and say that you don't want to tighten up and you are going to need to play a lot more hands than normal. Granted that you are better than everyone else at the table your going to be want to play a lot just because even though they are drooling even fish don't pay off nits live so you want to splash a bit to get max value when you do have skmethjng

Did I not say that? Because I totally agree.
 
R

ranma187

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Total posts
41
Chips
0
Yeah... But if you're NOT better than the players, playing tighter is better because it gives you an edge over what everyone else is doing.
 
P

Poker247

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Total posts
183
Chips
0
I agree with the play tight concept. Loose aggro players will put a lot of money in with mediocre hands, so just wait until you have a strong hand and go for it. You will be +EV a large amount of the time. Will the crazies hit sometimes? Yes! But over the long haul, if you have the bankroll to be playing at that table, I would stay...chance of bring home some nice profits is definitely there.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
You don't get value playing tight in live games. Got to put some bait on the lines
 
R

ranma187

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Total posts
41
Chips
0
You don't get value playing tight in live games. Got to put some bait on the lines
Depends on who's at the table. Low stakes live crazy tables (1/2 2/5), half the people either don't notice or care if you have folded the last 30 hands. Also tables like these go through a lot of people, you can always get in a good hand with someone who has just sat down and doesn't know how you play. And it's easy to make people think you play loose. Play a marginal hand heads up, when folding show it and laugh. Also straddle the first few rounds.. Then tighten up more. Table selection is also key.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Total posts
2,665
Awards
1
Chips
7
I'm going to go against most people here and say that you don't want to tighten up and you are going to need to play a lot more hands than normal. Granted that you are better than everyone else at the table your going to be want to play a lot just because even though they are drooling even fish don't pay off nits live so you want to splash a bit to get max value when you do have skmethjng

Agreed, but in position.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
Depends on who's at the table. Low stakes live crazy tables (1/2 2/5), half the people either don't notice or care if you have folded the last 30 hands. Also tables like these go through a lot of people, you can always get in a good hand with someone who has just sat down and doesn't know how you play. And it's easy to make people think you play loose. Play a marginal hand heads up, when folding show it and laugh. Also straddle the first few rounds.. Then tighten up more. Table selection is also key.
fish notice when you don't give action. Fish are people too they aren't completely clueless. I agree with you on getting people to think your loose but playing 1 marginal hand like a mentalist is a way worse way of doing it that just splashing a bit more. Plus ya know if you only show the really dumb hands people are going to figure out how to read you pretty quickly

Agreed, but in position.
being in position is irrelevant here.
 
Vitaliy Popik

Vitaliy Popik

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Total posts
74
Chips
0
This is a dream game. I would stay at this table as long as I could.

In games like these, the SPR (stack to pot ratio) is going to be small and thus the value of speculative hands goes down, whilst the value of big pairs and high cards goes up. Just wait for a big hand in the range of {99+, AJ+, KQ}, look to flop top pair or better, then get your stack in and hope for the best. There will be players that will stack off with Q8s on a Q53 board and you can dominate them with KQ/AQ hands. Patience is a virtue in games like these. If you are card dead and have to fold every hand for 2 hours straight, then so be it. When you win that $2000 pot, the 2 hours of waiting will be worth it. And even if you lose, you can still be happy about the fact that you made a play that was massively +EV and will be hugely profitable in the long run.

I agree with this
 
R

ranma187

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Total posts
41
Chips
0
fish notice when you don't give action. Fish are people too they aren't completely clueless. I agree with you on getting people to think your loose but playing 1 marginal hand like a mentalist is a way worse way of doing it that just splashing a bit more. Plus ya know if you only show the really dumb hands people are going to figure out how to read you pretty quickly

being in position is irrelevant here.


Well. I think you haven't spent enough time at the lower stakes. I've read much of your thread and it seems to have more experience playing higher up. You have to understand low stakes is a completely different game. People are mainly loose, will call with any pair, Aggro people who play every hand aggressively, will float J10 off all the way to the river on a scary board. I've put in some hours... and I think giving them too much credit is unprofitable. The key as I've said before is table selection. I find a lot of these players will justify calling your aggressiveness. I've had people call my trips with nothing, because they thought I was waiting too long for a hand and was trying to bluff them out of the pot. I've stacked people who like to chase every flush or straight draw, the more aggressive they are, the better for me.

I'm just going by experience. The times I did try to loosen up, be more aggressive I was, trying to bluff more in spots... I wound up losing a lot more. So right now I just stick to playing tight or situational, Lower variance for me. and Still turns in some profit.

I just don't see how playing like everyone else will make you win more.
 
dragunovich

dragunovich

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Total posts
336
Chips
0
I agree with the play tight concept. Loose aggro players will put a lot of money in with mediocre hands, so just wait until you have a strong hand and go for it. You will be +EV a large amount of the time. Will the crazies hit sometimes? Yes! But over the long haul, if you have the bankroll to be playing at that table, I would stay...chance of bring home some nice profits is definitely there.

too much tight = too much predictable
 
J

Joseph Havelka

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2016
Total posts
35
Chips
0
When I first sit down at a table sometimes I splash around quite a bit with very questionable hands. I'll do this for a few orbits then change gears and I get paid off a lot.
 
Top