Countering preflop minraises...

RodneyC86

RodneyC86

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God these are annoying
I have seen fish do this with all sorts of hands but they quite often mean monsters but occasionally suited acerags and SCs.

Problem is, I have seen people say fold against these with a marginal hand because although it seems like good price to call preflop, it is not...

But I can't help but feel they will run me over with such cheap restealing.

ATM I'm only calling with PP to setmine and of course reraise with AK and QQ+ as a standard line against a typical fish.

What do YOU do with this kind of minraise BS?
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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I call a lot. I look at it like this.

at 10nl if you make it .30, the make it .60. You have to call .30 to win potentially $10ish. Thats pretty good odds. These guys are bad enough to stack off light like any over pair or good top pair etc so if you do flat with 56s and do flop a good hand you will more likely stack him. Also you quite frequently get a good price on the flop to see the turn. They like to slowplay their monsters a lot and jam it on the river etc.

Yes you wont spike a 2pr+ hand often but when you do you are probably going to get paid off more often. So even if you call his min raise 20 times (that would be .30*20=$6) and miss, if you get it the 21st time and stack him it will be worth it.

Also sometimes you get multiway because its so cheap therefore giving you more odds.

If stacks are short then probably fold. Not sure the exact math on it though.

Also id be more willing to call ip because we get the last bet in and are more likely to get stacks in if thats what we want.

Just make sure not to stack off with A9 on 932 or something. And dont be afraid to fold your weak made hands to a 2 barrel because he probably isnt bluffin and he probably has you beat.
 
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

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dooydoo said:
I call a lot. I look at it like this.

at 10nl if you make it .30, the make it .60. You have to call .30 to win potentially $10ish. Thats pretty good odds. These guys are bad enough to stack off light like any over pair or good top pair etc so if you do flat with 56s and do flop a good hand you will more likely stack him. Also you quite frequently get a good price on the flop to see the turn. They like to slowplay their monsters a lot and jam it on the river etc.

Yes you wont spike a 2pr+ hand often but when you do you are probably going to get paid off more often. So even if you call his min raise 20 times (that would be .30*20=$6) and miss, if you get it the 21st time and stack him it will be worth it.

Also sometimes you get multiway because its so cheap therefore giving you more odds.

If stacks are short then probably fold. Not sure the exact math on it though.

Also id be more willing to call ip because we get the last bet in and are more likely to get stacks in if thats what we want.

Just make sure not to stack off with A9 on 932 or something. And dont be afraid to fold your weak made hands to a 2 barrel because he probably isnt bluffin and he probably has you beat.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY, these *****s are shortstackers more often than not X_x...

Not sure about the slowplay river jam though, most i've seen in 5NL so far bets pretty hard flop turn river. Hard to play drawing hands against these people and we need to bink something right on the flop or at worse hit a peeled turn.

But yeah, i'm very cautious with TPTK against these types. But I do wonder if this makes me exploitable. Can't help but feel there are players out there who just masquerade as fish and exploit regs like this.
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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no ones exploiting you at 5nl. Out leveling yourself is a mistake a lot of ppl make at the micros. 99% of players there are playing their 2 cards and thats it.

Its ok to call draws on the flop if you expect to get paid off if you hit and you have enough odds or slightly negative odds to call. Your implied odds here are usually quite big so its ok to make a slightly bad call if it will pay off. But ya spiking the flop is most important.

Also dont get frustrated if you miss. Chances are you are the best player at the table and you should be forcing yourself to play with the target as much as possible. The money will come.
 
aero87

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Play your hand and extract value. Don't try to outplay and bluff fish.

The other day I tried bluff on an A high board, 4 suited and 4 to a straight. I got called with a pair of aces, no kicker.

After that I played 2 pots with the same guy. Got a set in one and trips on the other. He called my raises and check called the rest of the streets.
 
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

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Argh man, after some review of hands I realized something.

I'm letting the fish steal my initiative so cheaply by minraising me!

I find myself having to dreadcall nearly anything except for absolute junk (which thankfully don't happen often) the minraise and then having to fold or c/f to a turn bet.

Am I just burning money here by calling say..80-90% considering that fish are passive and starts getting agro only with a monster-ish hand?

Folding to minraises seem too weak though... argh!!! this is making me so mad :mad:

Btw, talking about postflop this time lol
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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bad players stack off much lighter than they should so your implied odds are awesome. WHen they min raise you have to call a few more bb to win a bunch off bb so your pot odds are good. Just try to hit your hand. Dont worry about folding too much or losing initiative. I dont want to do the math but if you stack off 1 bad player for 100bb that should be equal to calling their minraise and folding the flop 20 times or something.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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I 3bet shorties a lot since if I don't have odds to setmine, they sure as **** don't either. If they 3bet me then it depends on my hand and their 3bet frequency.

Every time I stack them I say "thx", for some reason they avoid me like a plague lately ;)
 
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