Cooler? Or can you get away???

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Acemeister80

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Hello cardschatters!

I´ve recently made the switch from primarily being a MTT player to now playing 2c/5c zoom. I´m not able to invest 6 hours in to a tourny any more so zoom fits in easier lol

I´ve had a similar situation come up on numerous occasions and wouldn´t mind some advice coz it´s a cash game problem...

Last night I had two almost identical situations that I couldn´t get away from....

Im sitting on approx 7.50euro (150BB). Picked up QQ UTG and raised to 15c (3BB). Was then faced with a decent-sized 3-bet from mid/late position - around 50c (10BB). Now i´m not immediately scared of AA or KK every time i face a 3-bet but I have noticed on zoom tables that monsters like to oversize bet a UTG raiser - im guessing because theyre assuming i must have something decent to raise UTG otherwise id hit "fast-fold"!

So i call the 3-bet OOP and the flop comes 10 high. I check, villain c-bets slightly more than the pot which i call. Turn is a brick and i check-call his shove and he turns over AA.

In a tournament i would just see QQ vs AA as just a cooler. Even if i was sitting with 80 plus BBs it would just play out. But on a cash game your playing super-deep and I feel there must be another option than to call-off 150+ BBs with one pair.

Is it best to 4-bet preflop? With his 50c bet tho, I´d be raising to 1.20euro+ which doesnt really affect the postflop action if he calls - it would still all end up in the middle (maybe just one street sooner!). If he 5-bets me i could maybe get away but if he flats with KK or AA i´m still in the same situation.

Is there a consideration for folding QQ OOP preflop?? Or could I have got away at any other point?

Thanks in advance
 
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Beasty2k

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Hello cardschatters!

I´ve recently made the switch from primarily being a MTT player to now playing 2c/5c zoom. I´m not able to invest 6 hours in to a tourny any more so zoom fits in easier lol

I´ve had a similar situation come up on numerous occasions and wouldn´t mind some advice coz it´s a cash game problem...

Last night I had two almost identical situations that I couldn´t get away from....

Im sitting on approx 7.50euro (150BB). Picked up QQ UTG and raised to 15c (3BB). Was then faced with a decent-sized 3-bet from mid/late position - around 50c (10BB). Now i´m not immediately scared of AA or KK every time i face a 3-bet but I have noticed on zoom tables that monsters like to oversize bet a UTG raiser - im guessing because theyre assuming i must have something decent to raise UTG otherwise id hit "fast-fold"!

So i call the 3-bet OOP and the flop comes 10 high. I check, villain c-bets slightly more than the pot which i call. Turn is a brick and i check-call his shove and he turns over AA.

In a tournament i would just see QQ vs AA as just a cooler. Even if i was sitting with 80 plus BBs it would just play out. But on a cash game your playing super-deep and I feel there must be another option than to call-off 150+ BBs with one pair.

Is it best to 4-bet preflop? With his 50c bet tho, I´d be raising to 1.20euro+ which doesnt really affect the postflop action if he calls - it would still all end up in the middle (maybe just one street sooner!). If he 5-bets me i could maybe get away but if he flats with KK or AA i´m still in the same situation.

Is there a consideration for folding QQ OOP preflop?? Or could I have got away at any other point?

Thanks in advance
Curious to hear others' input here as well. QQ in EP is touch when facing a 3-bet, does depend on the villain.

Personally I would 4-bet / fold here most of the time. In zoom, being tremendously tight mostly, this is probably the best strategy. If he calls your 4b and villain calls all the way with AA/KK then gg and make a note of him as a "trapper".

But I do think you need to work on your sizing. His 50c 3-bet isn't overly massive. And your potential 4-bet should not be 1.20 but rather 1.60-1.80 imo. You don't want to let him play this hand cheap IP. You are oop and want to charge villain for this.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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Depends on his 3bet stats, default action vs. unknown could be either call and attack any flop without A/K or 4bet/shove. I really doubt it matters that much.

For 100bb I often prefer to just 4bet or even shove, plenty of people will call with worse and some fold AK there.
For less than 100bb I normally just shove.
If you are deeper than 100bb then probably calling is OK.

If you can't handle playing deep then just put the profits away when you hit 150bb.
 
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Acemeister80

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But I do think you need to work on your sizing. His 50c 3-bet isn't overly massive. And your potential 4-bet should not be 1.20 but rather 1.60-1.80 imo. You don't want to let him play this hand cheap IP. You are oop and want to charge villain for this.

Fair point beasty, to be fair i would have 4-bet to around 1.60. The 1.20 point was just confirming the absolute minimum amount a 4-bet size would be, and even a small 4-bet would be pot committing you. The only way you´ve got a chance to get away is folding to a 5-bet or seeing a nasty flop.


LD1977 said:
For 100bb I often prefer to just 4bet or even shove, plenty of people will call with worse and some fold AK there.
For less than 100bb I normally just shove.
If you are deeper than 100bb then probably calling is OK.
This kinda backs up my point. i was 150 BB deep and just flat called as opposed to 4-bet (played it slower), yet still got stacked because of a (seemingly) harmless flop. What if I´m 200/300BB deep??

Maybe a little off topic but....
because it was a zoom game i had no reads on villain because i dont use a HUD. How important is using a HUD so i have more info on villain? I bought a new laptop today so theres no better time i guess to install one. The more i think about it, it seems insane not using one in zoom!
 
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Acemeister80

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If you can't handle playing deep then just put the profits away when you hit 150bb.

didnt see this comment on first reading. That could be the solution lol One thing i do enjoy about cash over MTTs is the fact that you dont get that gut-wrenching feeling when you get stacked lol Worst case scenario you might lose a 3buyin pot. I´d take that all day over playing for 6 hours in a MTT and then getting busted a few spots before a big payout lol

I might cashout when i hit 150BB and sit back down again. Could be a useful rule to go with.
 
Arjonius

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I might cashout when i hit 150BB and sit back down again. Could be a useful rule to go with.
Just remember that by doing this, you cap how much you can win. I'm not saying not to do this. It's up to you. It's also not like you're stuck doing the same thing all the time. I sometimes do this, but not always. I also change the threshold amount depending on my mood. I've never set it as low as 150, but that's me.
 
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Acemeister80

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Just remember that by doing this, you cap how much you can win. I'm not saying not to do this. It's up to you. It's also not like you're stuck doing the same thing all the time. I sometimes do this, but not always. I also change the threshold amount depending on my mood. I've never set it as low as 150, but that's me.
ye fair point, on second consideration 150BB is small a profit seeing as u sit down with 100BB. i play 2c/5c so sit down with 5euro, 150BB is only 7.50. Ive noticed that i make steady progress when i get to 15euro plus, play in position and other decent size stacks tend to not get involved and i can take down lots of small pots. I normally set 20euro as my target for leaving so maybe 400BB is a better figure to aim for.
On a side note, I´ve just installed pokertracker and cant believe ive been playing in the dark for so long lol. Can anyone tell me how to bring up stats on win/loss figures for specific starting hands??
 
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