Confused AF after first live casino cash game

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SuperBased

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Made an account here just to clear my head, get some advice and try to figure out what I was missing... My first time at a cash table in the casino left me perplexed.

So I'm still fairly new to poker but my game has vastly inproved in the last few months, thanks to practice at low stakes online, and plenty of tips from sites like this. I'm used to playing very low stake cash games online and I've been doing quite well. I have also played a few recent live turbo charity poker tournaments (coming 2nd of 89 in the most recent), and I regularly clean up playing small home games with friends and co workers.

I decided to take some of my winnings from my most recent tourney and try my hand at a table at my local casino. 1$/3$ stakes. I wish I had more time to observe... But I got dealt QQ in CO on my eighth hand. Almost everyone at the table had limped up untill the guy two positions before me who raised to $12. I reraised to $25... FOUR people called including SB, UTG, the original raiser and the guy between us.... I'm a bit confused. I wanted to scare the limpers out because I had seen people limping with stuff like T7s or K8o. Flop came 44T. Im thinking only TT to be worries about... Maybe pocket 4s? Unlikely.
Original raiser shoves, one fold, action to me and I really think he's tryna steal the pot (in hindsight maybe I should have put him on a higher pair or Tens. But The adrenaline and pressure of being live at a casino first time may have clouded my judgement.) I reraised all in to force anyone else out. SB calls us. UTG folds.

SB shows 43o, the other guy shows 43s....
They end up splitting the pot. I'm left wondering how on earth these guys are calling 8x the BB with 43?!! Is this casino poker? Did I get stuck at a table of bingo playing fish with huge bankrolls?
I know I coulda played my hand better... But I dunno. I had to leave after that eighth hand or I woulda been playing on tilt for the rest of the night. Kinda bummed my night was cut short... What should I have done different?
 
NCDaddy

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Did I get stuck at a table of bingo playing fish with huge bankrolls?

Yes. Or, at least just bingo fish.

Hard to fault your preflop re-raise, especially since you didn't have a beat on the other players yet.

I say the following as my thought process would've been going in blind not knowing any player history or tendencies. I assume the small blind checked to the original raiser? The original raiser shoving with two behind to act and with the SB potentially coming along for the ride indicates that he has a strong had at that point and not just a steal. I'd have to put him on an overpair of some sort like KK or AA. 4's are unlikely because quads would check there. I also think 10's would've checked there. So after his shove, you have to worry about him AND the SB....who possibly could've been setting up a check raise with something like A4....or 10's thinking that you or original raiser would handle the starting of action and not wanting to scare you guys off. At this point...it's hard to let go of a solid overpair. If it were just heads up with the original raiser, I'd get felted and would say "nh", reload, and get him down the road knowing he plays all sorts of stuff. Since you have to worry about possibly beating 2 hands now....I don't mind a fold here but again..hard to let go. I think it's one of those hands where you just say "ooooooook then"...reload and double through both of them later. B/C you will, eventually, with them playing like that.

So, as for playing different...not really. But...set yourself up better with more $ to take down fish like that. You'll get nicked....it's poker. But you have a bunch of info now for when you reload.
 
xkenjix

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when you said, "everyone limped until" guy made it 12. in live poker especially. I would make it 50-60 with that many limpers + the $12 raise. flop is unfortunate
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

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Made an account here just to clear my head, get some advice and try to figure out what I was missing... My first time at a cash table in the casino left me perplexed.

So I'm still fairly new to poker but my game has vastly inproved in the last few months, thanks to practice at low stakes online, and plenty of tips from sites like this. I'm used to playing very low stake cash games online and I've been doing quite well. I have also played a few recent live turbo charity poker tournaments (coming 2nd of 89 in the most recent), and I regularly clean up playing small home games with friends and co workers.

I decided to take some of my winnings from my most recent tourney and try my hand at a table at my local casino. 1$/3$ stakes. I wish I had more time to observe... But I got dealt QQ in CO on my eighth hand. Almost everyone at the table had limped up untill the guy two positions before me who raised to $12. I reraised to $25... FOUR people called including SB, UTG, the original raiser and the guy between us.... I'm a bit confused. I wanted to scare the limpers out because I had seen people limping with stuff like T7s or K8o. Flop came 44T. Im thinking only TT to be worries about... Maybe pocket 4s? Unlikely.
Original raiser shoves, one fold, action to me and I really think he's tryna steal the pot (in hindsight maybe I should have put him on a higher pair or Tens. But The adrenaline and pressure of being live at a casino first time may have clouded my judgement.) I reraised all in to force anyone else out. SB calls us. UTG folds.

SB shows 43o, the other guy shows 43s....
They end up splitting the pot. I'm left wondering how on earth these guys are calling 8x the BB with 43?!! Is this casino poker? Did I get stuck at a table of bingo playing fish with huge bankrolls?
I know I coulda played my hand better... But I dunno. I had to leave after that eighth hand or I woulda been playing on tilt for the rest of the night. Kinda bummed my night was cut short... What should I have done different?

Yep, some players play badly as youve seen. Itd be helpful to know how deep you were, with 300bb a 43s call isnt terrible but i doubt that was the case. In there situations just bite your tounge end get em on the next hand.
 
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MakeUcryalot

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Lol what are you doing 3betting that small??? casinos raise a LOT more than any online game you'll find (usually). A typical 3 bet (which is imo correct in this situation) is 2x the pot. Sometimes more sometimes less. In this exact situation Id have to say a bit more.

You weren't exactly specific about the number of limpers so lets say 3. Pot= 4(blinds)+9(limps)+12(reraise)= 25. The ideal 3 bet in this spot would be between 48 and 60. Id probably have raised to 50 since the idea is to get your money in right now since pf you likely have the best hand.

I didn't read the rest since it probably became bingo. Don't play bingo. 3bet= pot x2.
 
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Lol what are you doing 3betting that small??? Casinos raise a LOT more than any online game you'll find (usually). A typical 3 bet (which is imo correct in this situation) is 2x the pot. Sometimes more sometimes less. In this exact situation Id have to say a bit more.

You weren't exactly specific about the number of limpers so lets say 3. Pot= 4(blinds)+9(limps)+12(reraise)= 25. The ideal 3 bet in this spot would be between 48 and 60. Id probably have raised to 50 since the idea is to get your money in right now since pf you likely have the best hand.

I didn't read the rest since it probably became bingo. Don't play bingo. 3bet= pot x2.

Good advice for sure... My 3bet probably was too small. In my mind it wasn't, and that likely is because online it usually would have been.

In your guys' opinion though.. Is this kinda play pretty typical in casinos or did I just end up at a crappy table? Mind you, it was about midnight on a Friday night... Probably a lot different of a crowd than early evening on a Tuesday
 
RidersFan

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Lol what are you doing 3betting that small??? Casinos raise a LOT more than any online game you'll find (usually). A typical 3 bet (which is imo correct in this situation) is 2x the pot. Sometimes more sometimes less. In this exact situation Id have to say a bit more.

You weren't exactly specific about the number of limpers so lets say 3. Pot= 4(blinds)+9(limps)+12(reraise)= 25. The ideal 3 bet in this spot would be between 48 and 60. Id probably have raised to 50 since the idea is to get your money in right now since pf you likely have the best hand.

I didn't read the rest since it probably became bingo. Don't play bingo. 3bet= pot x2.

Yep completely agree. I was going to say basically the same thing, now I don't have to.
 
OzExorcist

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Hate to say it but yeah, that sounds like a pretty standard low-stakes casino cash game to me. Bigger raise MIGHT get the limpers to fold, it might not.

Think about it another way though - you're at a table with players who'll limp-call you regularly from OOP with hands like 43. That's a Very Good Thing, even if it didn't go your way on this occasion.
 
Andrew Popov

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Your main mistake - the game is not for bankroll. You sat at the table with all your money and losing only one hand was your finish. You got very good opponents, who generously pay preflop with weak hands. If you continued to play at this table, you would be rewarded.

Your second mistake is on the flop. You were with a couple of ladies against four opponents and it's bad. You should consider that there were pairs of aces or kings, and that there will be two more cards that will help win any of the aces that these players could come to the bank.

43s have the right to look at the flop against the four - they only need 20-25% of the equity that they have.

Your third mistake is you do not have any statistics on your opponents. It's only the eighth hand at the table and you do not know who you are playing with. Almost you gave your money to unfamiliar players ...
 
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quick

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This blew me away too the first time i played live casino poker. Fortunately I had a friend who has experience playing live and gave me the heads up on this kind of bingo play and some tips on how to manage it.

Definitely as others said you need to re-raise bigger live. I'd raise at least 3x the $12. So if villain bets $12 pre flop, with QQ I'd be looking to 3-bet him at least $36 if not more if there's other players who called his initial raise. This is definitely a hand where you needed to push out limpers. And the shove on flop is a strong indicator you're probably beat. Which you were. I'd put that shove range on 10x, a 4 with a face card. We can probably rule out AA-KK as the villain would have 4-bet you pre flop. I mean if someone bets a smaller amount on flop, I might call as it's not a drawing board and re-evalauate on turn.

Welcome to live poker. And as Andrew Popov said, bankroll is important. Depending on how often you want to play live you'll want to have at least a few buy ins stashed away for next time. When I return to live play next month I plan on keeping around $2K in a separate account for my live 1/2 action and even that's somewhat short (although I don't play daily).
 
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These live hands so much make me remember zynka poker. I think that would be great tool to hone the tactics online. Just be vary that people running it do not understand poker at all and are assholes more or less. Still worth it for practice.
 
korneel

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wow what a hand.
I would lose my money too i guess...
 
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wow thats rough. This does not necessarily characterize casino poker however. You got extremely unlucky there and put in a bad spot. The other two players played really bad and every 4 in the deck was at play. sorry that happened. keep hope alive lol.
 
mammadduke

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ive been burnt like that too so I just push a lil harder when betting
 
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Everyone has there bad luck following them I have seen people losing with pocket aces
 
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Your main mistake - the game is not for bankroll. You sat at the table with all your money and losing only one hand was your finish. You got very good opponents, who generously pay preflop with weak hands. If you continued to play at this table, you would be rewarded.

Your second mistake is on the flop. You were with a couple of ladies against four opponents and it's bad. You should consider that there were pairs of aces or kings, and that there will be two more cards that will help win any of the aces that these players could come to the bank.

43s have the right to look at the flop against the four - they only need 20-25% of the equity that they have.

Your third mistake is you do not have any statistics on your opponents. It's only the eighth hand at the table and you do not know who you are playing with. Almost you gave your money to unfamiliar players ...

This ^ thanks.. Really helps me wrap my head around it. I know it couldnt just be bad luck, though it played a part. Big mistakes in my play and super good lesson for the future when maybe my bankroll (and wife lol) does allow for more live nino games
 
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Yep completely agree. I was going to say basically the same thing, now I don't have to.

I agree, you should be 3betting more here but on another note you where really unlucky, better luck next time. :)
 
TheNutz4You

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A healthy 3 bet preflop of 60-70 dollars would of maybe folded out them BS speculation hands hoping to flop something. Live and learn, but next time spice up your 3bet atleast twice as much as you did here.
 
BentleyBoy

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Probability...... and bad luck. These are elements of the game of poker and you should accept them as part of the game and move on.

So, with that on board are you feeling better already?

Good....now... I totally agree that your raise was somewhat light and agree that at least twice the pot or three times the raise would have been more appropriate, however I am guessing that even this may not have made a difference to these two guys who just wanted to get their money on the table and see some action. Now..... that last bit is THE most important thing to learn from this hand. These guys just want action. What does that mean to you? It mean they are a cash machine. Yes on this occasion they got lucky and hit their hands.... however.... think of it for yourself..... if you played 34 all the time, how many times would you win? Hmmm...thought so. If you could have, you should have stayed at this table and cleaned them out..... it would have happened.

If you're not already... start feeling better about this and get back at the tables and play great poker. Don't be distracted by probability and bad play. Bad play is your ticket to success.
 
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