Completing from SB w/ odds and trash

micro-stakes cash FR.


Is it proper to go ahead and complete the bet with 4-7 to 1 pot odds? I find myself calling a lot in the SB behind 2 or 3 limpers with trash. I don't like playing garbage, but if I am offered 7to1 should I be completing?

What odds are required to call regardless of what you are holding?

does texture come into play or are correct odds correct odds?

I think its ok to call and as long as the cards are suited or could land a straight.. Problem is that even if you hit top pair with the 7 .. You are still holding 7 with a four kicker and any pocket pair above is winning.. Also anyone with good hold cards is likely to call unless you go in for an enormous raise. Its not really about loosing the the 1/2 blind it is more about getting caught into a hand and risk more chips .. Someone's A7 suited is way ahead of your 47 on a 237 flop...

Against 3 limpers with random hands, you're about a 4.5 to 1 dog if you're holding 74o. Against 2 limpers with random hands, you're about a 2.3 to 1 dog with the same holding. If you haven't tried it, there's a great tool called Pokerstove you can download to run these kinds of scenarios (search the forum or google it). If the pot gives you better odds than this, you can complete.

You can also look at implied odds - the odds that your hand will allow you to get more money off your opponent than is actually in the pot, if you hit with a sub-premium holding (because people will be disinclined to believe you completed with 74o).

You have to be careful with pot odds and implied odds in the SB, though - your position is the worst possible, so you typically won't be able to extract as much value from here as you would from good position. As JoeDi points out above, since you're first to act and don't know if your pair of 7's is outkicked, your plan of attack from SB is difficult to map out. You will only get good value from two pair or better with 74o - and that's assuming someone else hit something on the board that isn't better than what you hit. Because of this, I tend to look for at least one and a half times the pot odds to complete from SB with complete junk, more if I think the table has several good players. Suited connectors and small pairs I'll complete when I have pot odds (especially if I think I have implied odds), though if I like my situation I'll be inclined to raise those rather than simply complete.

if blinds are reasonable, I'll complete with connectors, suited cards, any face or ace. About 3/4 of the players in BB, if its folded to me & I complete, will raise. If I have a good (not great) hand [QJ etc.]
I'll make a small raise. Premium hand I'll complete (if folded to me), hope BB raises then reraise

There's little risk involved.. I mean, with 2 or 3 limpers, and you're fairly sure the BB won't re-raise you, I love seeing the flop for cheap with garbage. In my opinion, one of the best things to learn is to compete with trash hands. Everyone gets their aces and kings and whatever, but if everyone played only aces and kings, people wouldn't really make money. So to have some limp with their aces, you calling with your 2-7 o and flopping the nuts.. it makes it easy seperating that guy with his money.

Obviously, a couple pointers.. you should be going in with the thought that you want to flop hard. If nothing shows, throw it away, it don't matter and shouldn't bother you if you lay down 3-4 or whatever.
Another thing, in my opinion you shouldn't be chasing the straights and flushes, etc, but that's up to you.

Just flop it HARD, REAL HARD.

I like the mathematical aspect of poker and generally play the game from a math perspective...however, from the sb I just don't call with trashy hands...playing out of position is just not something I want to do

No, I don't like playing from the sb, either. I just have to weigh the risk/reward. The majority of the time it doesn't make sense to just throw away that money, but when you've got some low suited/connectors or whatever, it can be nice to see a cheap flop.

Honestly, if you're getting 7-1, it's worth it. Even if you assume you need to hit trips or better to win the hand, think about your implied odds. I'd complete every time with 7-1 other than really weird circumstances (as in my M is less than 10).