Is this colluding?

If two or more players got together and started pushing every hand and got the whole table pushing every hand preflop? Seems to me you could create some kind of strategy out of it. And if you could you would need more players to do it with you.

kingme620 said:

If two or more players got together and started pushing every hand and got the whole table pushing every hand preflop?

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First of all, you and one other player can't "get the whole table pushing every hand" no matter what you do. Everyone would have to have a predisposition to risky pushing, and not a lot of good players are willing to do that.

Second of all, the first time the two of you both push, one of you is knocked out of the tournament. So then what? If the remaining person just continues to push every hand, he'll eventually lose or get trapped and then he's out too.

Third of all, if you worked out this plan ahead of time, it might be considered colluding, except for the fact that it is so destined to fail that I don't think anyone would really mind.

It's an interesting idea, but I think if you work it through you will see that it can't really go that far. Which is why you probably never see good poker players play like that.

Just my opinion on the idea. Others may think differently.

-Dave

I should of been more specific, this isn't a tournament. It's 1c/2c FR microstakes. Not that I think that's what was going on , but I saw an example of this earlier and it got me thinking.

It lasted about two hours and at its peak had an avg pot of ~$50, two stacks at $100 and the rest below $20 Thats at 2nl! I feel that after watching that some sort of strategy could be in play. Thoughts?

kingme620 said:

If two or more players got together and started pushing every hand and got the whole table pushing every hand preflop? Seems to me you could create some kind of strategy out of it. And if you could you would need more players to do it with you.

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As soon as u said what is in bold...to me that is collusion!!!!

kingme620 said:

I should of been more specific, this isn't a tournament. It's 1c/2c FR microstakes. Not that I think that's what was going on , but I saw an example of this earlier and it got me thinking.

It lasted about two hours and at its peak had an avg pot of ~$50, two stacks at $100 and the rest below $20 Thats at 2nl! I feel that after watching that some sort of strategy could be in play. Thoughts?

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I will gladly play at your table when you put this strategy to use,just let me know when!



Snow

kingme620 said:

I should of been more specific, this isn't a tournament. It's 1c/2c FR microstakes. Not that I think that's what was going on , but I saw an example of this earlier and it got me thinking.

It lasted about two hours and at its peak had an avg pot of ~$50, two stacks at $100 and the rest below $20 Thats at 2nl! I feel that after watching that some sort of strategy could be in play. Thoughts?

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2NL is hardly the hot bed of cutting edge poker stratagy.

If you see something done at 2NL and it looks odd or strange and you are not sure if its a good idea or not, air on the side of it is wrong, it is bad, it is not something that you want to do.

Then post here, 99.99% of the time your suspicions of wrongness will be confirmed.

it is called flipping. not a form of collusion

~Collusion~

1) A secret agreement and cooperation for a fraudulent or deceitful purpose; a playing into each others hands; deceit; fraud; cunning.

2) An agreement between two or more persons to defraud a person of his rights, by the forms of law, or to obtain an object forbidden by law or terms of use.

If you make an agreement to play a specific way with another player............. you are in violation of conclusion.

kingme620 said:

If two or more players got together and started pushing every hand and got the whole table pushing every hand preflop? Seems to me you could create some kind of strategy out of it. And if you could you would need more players to do it with you.

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It sounds like collusion to me...I have wondered many times when other players would seem to shove against my call (to force me to All-in or fold & lose chips each play) if it was collusion. The same players would not do it except when I called. But short of being called paranoid, I decided to play anyway & to reserve my calling for hands that I could go all-in on if necessary! It's really just the game of Poker...sometimes you have someone that seems to 'have it in for you' & sometimes you don't! Then you just hope you change tables quickly! He-he!

Yes, it's colluding. And if these colluding players are also sharing card info to make it less risky to shove, which is very likely...well, then you have the perfect poker storm. (Then, also, it's only a matter of time before the site bans them and takes their accounts.)

Most rational players are not going to stay long at a ring table where every hand is a shove fest. So the players there have self-selected; they are all going to be gamblers, and, hopefully, have enough of a bankroll to do this. Once more than one hand is over $20, the strategy, such as it is, becomes a lot more costly, as the table is no longer a micro table in actuality.

Bottomline, it's stupid, bullying behavior, aside from the collusion. Be even more stupid to sit at that table.

Unless, of course, you just feel like throwing your money away.

pantin007 said:

it is called flipping. not a form of collusion

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Apparently this was ignored?

I mean, I guess there is a slim chance that these players were looking at eachothers hole cards, but the far more likely scenario is that they just wanted to blow some money so they went to the lowest limit and just started shoving every hand

Ill take my millionz of dorras to the cap 2NL tables and push people arrrounddddd..!

lol if they are shoving every single hand, it doesnt matter if they are they know what each other is holding

That's not collusion. It's coinflipping, and gives the people who don't agree to do it a major advantage.

This is *way* different than two players agreeing to call a short stack with any two cards in a tournament to move up payout levels. (Two big stacks should probably do this as part of strategy, but it's not something they are allowed to arrange with each other).

I wish people did this at every table I played. The variance would be wild, but it's way +EV.

I don't know how EV+ plus it is haha, no matter your hand if your up against 8 other players its a coin flip for you too.

Lemlywinks said:

Apparently this was ignored?
but the far more likely scenario is that they just wanted to blow some money so they went to the lowest limit and just started shoving every hand

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I guess I'll probably go with this. A couple of the players were 2/5 regs.

collusion comes in many forms and colors such as this .....I was in a tourny and after eleminateing the active players at a table and after a few more "sitout players" were moved onto the table I was left with almost all but one empty seat filled with sitouts .... this went on for a few rounds when another player was seated at the table and he quickly realized the situation and asked If I would agree to take turns collecting the blinds from the sitouts till they were gone or we/they moved......this in my opinion(and probablly the rooms Admins) would be collussion between two players. Hmmmmmmm what do ya'll think?

Surf Rat said:

collusion comes in many forms and colors such as this .....I was in a tourny and after eleminateing the active players at a table and after a few more "sitout players" were moved onto the table I was left with almost all but one empty seat filled with sitouts .... this went on for a few rounds when another player was seated at the table and he quickly realized the situation and asked If I would agree to take turns collecting the blinds from the sitouts till they were gone or we/they moved......this in my opinion(and probablly the rooms Admins) would be collussion between two players. Hmmmmmmm what do ya'll think?

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that is collusion but it has nothing to do with this situation

Yeah, I'd say it's not collusion. It's like straddling, only bigger If you start trying to use your and your friends all ins to move people off hands, like if say you both went all in after one player raised, but folded otherwise. That is the realm of collusion.

pantin007 said:

lol if they are shoving every single hand, it doesnt matter if they are they know what each other is holding

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Absolutely correct.

If they've agreed between themselves before the game to do it though, then it is collusion.

It's a pretty crap form of collusion because as Savage points out, it's -EV for the players doing it. But it is collusion if they've agreed beforehand to do it.

OP sounds a lot more like someone's started it and others have just joined in for the coinflipping lulz though. In which case, not collusion.

When you make an agreement with another player to play a certain strategy then yes this is collusion. even if the whole table starts to do this without knowing anyone else at the table this is still collssion because 2 or more of you have started playing a strategy together

seuatx said:

When you make an agreement with another player to play a certain strategy then yes this is collusion. even if the whole table starts to do this without knowing anyone else at the table this is still collssion because 2 or more of you have started playing a strategy together

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Where is it stated, in this situation, that 2 or more player actually made an agreement?

kingme620 said:

I should of been more specific, this isn't a tournament. It's 1c/2c FR microstakes.

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Oh, no problem. My mind just went straight to tournament since that's all I play.

It looks like people have answered this pretty well. For me, it would just annoy me. I guess if you just be ultra patient and then get only great hands in there, you'll come out ahead. But it really loses the "fun" factor for me. Plus, as mentioned by someone else, the variance goes up. So bankroll management could be an issue. How much money do you have to leave on the table to play 2nl?

-Dave

Surf Rat said:

he quickly realized the situation and asked If I would agree to take turns collecting the blinds from the sitouts till they were gone or we/they moved......this in my opinion(and probablly the rooms Admins) would be collussion between two players. Hmmmmmmm what do ya'll think?

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Yeah, that's definitely collusion. If he can't steal his fair share of blinds from one other player and a table full of sit-outs, then he's in trouble anyhow.

-Dave