Checking with Top Pair

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bombomb

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Usually I never do this because the last thing I want is someone with a gut shot to hit on the turn or river and screw me over when I could of had the pot right after the flop. Lately though in cardschat freerolls people have been checking to me with top. I always think I have the lead and then right at the end they flip over top pair. Is it a valid strategy to trap with top pair?
 
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underdog140

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It is risky to do that the other player could have any cards and could easily catch 2 pair.I wouldnt do it unless you have a good read on what the other player has.I try and slow two pair and tripps just to have them loose so Top pair can easilly be beaten.
 
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vagas35

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I never slow play top pair unless I'm heads up, even that's rare.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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It's a very valid strategy but depends heavily on board texture.

Example (100bb effective stacks)

Hero is BTN with AhKs and opens for 3bbs
Villain is bb and calls
Pot (7.5 bbs)
Flop is Ad 7h 3c
Villain checks
Hero should seriously consider checking behind a lot in this situation.
Why? Because the villain's range is weak (because he was bb) and he likely folds everything we beat. By checking behind we allow the villain to possibly open his range and start betting his unimproved pocket pairs and all pairs under our TPTK as well as bluffing. We also get to SD a little more cheaply those times when villain outflopped us by hitting 2 pair or a set because we eliminate a round of betting.

Now if we have the same situation but the flop is Ad Qs 9s we should probably bet the flop because our villain is more likely to have a decent piece of the flop and our TPTK is likely ahead but not by a large margin and giving free cards here should be a concern. Incidently if we're called on this flop checking behind on the turn for pot control may be correct depending on out read of the villain.
 
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bombomb

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thanks

It's a very valid strategy but depends heavily on board texture.

Example (100bb effective stacks)

Hero is BTN with AhKs and opens for 3bbs
Villain is bb and calls
Pot (7.5 bbs)
Flop is Ad 7h 3c
Villain checks
Hero should seriously consider checking behind a lot in this situation.
Why? Because the villain's range is weak (because he was bb) and he likely folds everything we beat. By checking behind we allow the villain to possibly open his range and start betting his unimproved pocket pairs and all pairs under our TPTK as well as bluffing. We also get to SD a little more cheaply those times when villain outflopped us by hitting 2 pair or a set because we eliminate a round of betting.

Now if we have the same situation but the flop is Ad Qs 9s we should probably bet the flop because our villain is more likely to have a decent piece of the flop and our TPTK is likely ahead but not by a large margin and giving free cards here should be a concern. Incidently if we're called on this flop checking behind on the turn for pot control may be correct depending on out read of the villain.



Thanks for the advice!
 
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billthebill

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As with any strategy it depends on your opponents. If you are in position against some bluff-happy players, then this strategy can work out very much in your favor. Against other opponents it won't work as well.
 
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Ranger390

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Top pair, especially in a cash game, is one of those tough situations. You are either way ahead or way behind. Board texture does play a role in you decision to bet or check. But, ramming and jamming with top pair means that you will either win a small pot or lose a big pot. Top pair, even with top kicker, in a cash game is not the hand to shove with.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Example (100bb effective stacks)

Hero is BTN with AhKs and opens for 3bbs
Villain is bb and calls
Pot (7.5 bbs)
Flop is Ad 7h 3c
Villain checks
Hero should seriously consider checking behind a lot in this situation.
Why? Because the villain's range is weak (because he was bb) and he likely folds everything we beat.

i agree that you can check here, especially dependent on how often BB defends, but saying if we bet "he likely folds everything we beat." huh? he clearly calls with any A, almost certainly calls with a 7, pps he flatted, etc. all we did was raise the button and c-bet a dry flop, they'll feel like any pair is good in this spot more often than it's not
 
DKnight10

DKnight10

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It's a very valid strategy but depends heavily on board texture.

Example (100bb effective stacks)

Hero is BTN with AhKs and opens for 3bbs
Villain is bb and calls
Pot (7.5 bbs)
Flop is Ad 7h 3c
Villain checks
Hero should seriously consider checking behind a lot in this situation.
Why? Because the villain's range is weak (because he was bb) and he likely folds everything we beat. By checking behind we allow the villain to possibly open his range and start betting his unimproved pocket pairs and all pairs under our TPTK as well as bluffing. We also get to SD a little more cheaply those times when villain outflopped us by hitting 2 pair or a set because we eliminate a round of betting.

Now if we have the same situation but the flop is Ad Qs 9s we should probably bet the flop because our villain is more likely to have a decent piece of the flop and our TPTK is likely ahead but not by a large margin and giving free cards here should be a concern. Incidently if we're called on this flop checking behind on the turn for pot control may be correct depending on out read of the villain.

I like this! Good explanation and seems very logical. I 99% value bet TPTK hands and haven't really even considered a play like this, thanks alot.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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i agree that you can check here, especially dependent on how often BB defends, but saying if we bet "he likely folds everything we beat." huh? he clearly calls with any A, almost certainly calls with a 7, pps he flatted, etc. all we did was raise the button and c-bet a dry flop, they'll feel like any pair is good in this spot more often than it's not

You're right it was a poor choice of words. Obviously he never folds a weaker Ace and you're right there are plenty of opponents that we can play this bet,bet,bet and expect them to call all the way with say pocket 8s. My point was that we open his range for both calling and betting on future streets by checking behind occasionally. With TPTK we'd like to get 2 streets of value against most decent opponents and sometimes the best way to do that is to check the flop.
 
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