Originally Posted by allndave
it only works as a bluff against players that are using position to steal the pot.
i find that a lot of players will call a check raise on the flop only to fold to a bet on the turn.
I find the same thing. If villain's bet was not a total
bluff but a powerful draw instead, he might call a medium-sized check-raise to 1) protect his initial bet 2) pot odds
to call (might depend on how much real estate between you & villain, did others call in between?) 3) to save face. If you fire a bet the turn, he realizes that you cannot be easily persuaded to fold. And if he doesn't hit, will likely fold.
Originally Posted by spore
check-raising is done for two reasons
1) as a bluff
2) attempt to get more value w/ a big hand
Either way.. if someone cold-calls a check/raise you have to ask yourself why they would do that. It could be they are a bad player and didn't recognize it (especially if flop is multi-way), or they could have a bigger hand and are trying to let you hang yourself.
You have to read their hand. If you think they called the C/R on a draw and no scare card hits on the turn.. fire out another bet.. I would not C/R multiple times in a hand (anyone else have thoughts on this?).. so if your C/R gets called, you fire a bet on the turn and get raised.. I'm out of that pot pretty quick unless I have a monster. The other option of course is to take a free card if you C/R has forced villain to back off and you have a draw.
I would never check-raise as a total bluff. Even as a semi-bluff (top pair with flush draw), I'd use it sparingly. And for the same scenario as you describe, you fire another one on the run, and this time you
I do it for added value - lots
of added value when I flop a monster. But it will rarely if ever happen multiple times in a hand, and here's why: I will usually wait until the turn
to do it. You can extract more value that way from 1) others calling the villain's smaller raise, 2) give your opponents a chance to hit a lesser hand, and 3) your image of weakness in the hand will probably result in villain firing a much larger bet after the turn to shake you off it. So, yeah, he's either gonna call my reraise or reraise me back right there and then. If he's just calling, and I'm confident Imy hand is good, I'll bet the river too for additional vaue, because I don't think he's gonna come out and bet again. I might check-raise on the flop if I have the nuts at the moment (like top set), but can be more easily outdrawn. Unless I've flopped a monster, if it's a wet flop I'm more likely probably discard the check-raise stunt and come out & bet.
But there's nothing more fun than launching a surprise rebuttal and watching the clocks tick down - or better yet, a call or 2.