My cbet success is 44.4% is that a big leak

P

puke

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
I checked my data today. My cbet is 72% and the success is 44.4%.
I am 20.3/18.8, play 6max
I used to be very aggressive and already adjust to be more conservative. Any advice if I need to tight more
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
Probs fine, mines 42% i think, always seems to be 42% for me. Be better to make sure you understand why you're c-betting and look through hands to make sure you can justify each c-bet.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Nope, that's good. People are folding less to c-bets than they used to also.
 
P

puke

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Thank you. I do not know how big you play. I play $10nl, so people may like to call more.

I just hate to DB air still get called.But if I do not bet turn, it shows weakness. It is a delimma.
I am still not sure if it is too spew in micro stake

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
 
E

eazy489

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Total posts
52
Chips
0
You are probably c betting too much. How many hands do u have tracked that u say u r cbetting 72%? Try to think about what ur opponents are calling with preflop and use that info to decide whether to Cbet certain flops. An optimal c betting frequency is somewhere around 50% IMO, with a much higher success rate.
 
S

sunmingtao

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 8, 2012
Total posts
14
Chips
0
my cbet rate is 60%. no cbet on wet board or multiway pots
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
Thank you. I do not know how big you play. I play $10nl, so people may like to call more.

I just hate to DB air still get called.But if I do not bet turn, it shows weakness. It is a delimma.
I am still not sure if it is too spew in micro stake

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]

People actually fold more at lower stakes. I wouldn't be surprised if c-bet success got lower each level up you went.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
You are probably c betting too much. How many hands do u have tracked that u say u r cbetting 72%? Try to think about what ur opponents are calling with preflop and use that info to decide whether to Cbet certain flops. An optimal c betting frequency is somewhere around 50% IMO, with a much higher success rate.

Doesn't sound right for 10nl, c-betting 70% is probably around bang on for 10nl. C-betting 50% might give a slightly higher success rate, but not by much and it will be better c-betting 70% with a 42% success rate than 50% with a 45% success rate
 
individualequal

individualequal

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2012
Total posts
118
Chips
0
The 44.4% c-bet success doesn't include the times you can win it on the turn and river. If you are time and again c-betting, then giving up on turn and river, some players may note this and call the flop to bluff the turn. Obviously at lower stakes less people are going to be doing this, but there may be a few people with analytical skills down there.

I'd concentrate on making value bets and c-bets look no different, ie, time taken to bet, bet sizing, etc. I tend to stick to 2/3 pot c-bet and value bet on flop if heads-up. You could also consider when value betting the flop, if you get called, to make it look as though you are giving up on the turn in order to contradict players' notes on you.

At 10nl, I find there's a lot of 2nl players tired of being sucked out on by fish and decide to play out of their bankroll and play better players at 10nl. How you interpret this may be different to me, but i think there will be a lot of min. 3-bet bluffs, calling too much to hit draws, etc. Basically just try to figure out in each case why they'd call
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
I'd concentrate on making value bets and c-bets look no different, ie, time taken to bet, bet sizing, etc. I tend to stick to 2/3 pot c-bet and value bet on flop if heads-up. You could also consider when value betting the flop, if you get called, to make it look as though you are giving up on the turn in order to contradict players' notes on you.

I really disagree with this. Against regulars who are going to catch on then yeah make your value bets and bluffs the same size (depending on the board texture)

But against the majority of players you're c-betting into, the fish, theres no reason to keep a constant size because they're not picking up on bet sizing tells, so when you have a hand bet more and when you're bluffing bet less. Gives you a better price on your bluffs so ultimately makes you more money.
 
P

puke

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Thank you for your reply. My cbet is either 1/2 or 2/3 bet.I do not think bet size will affect a lot at this level players. However you will find a lot players play aggressive try to bluff if you show weakness.
Maybe I will try to find a better balance point

The 44.4% c-bet success doesn't include the times you can win it on the turn and river. If you are time and again c-betting, then giving up on turn and river, some players may note this and call the flop to bluff the turn. Obviously at lower stakes less people are going to be doing this, but there may be a few people with analytical skills down there.

I'd concentrate on making value bets and c-bets look no different, ie, time taken to bet, bet sizing, etc. I tend to stick to 2/3 pot c-bet and value bet on flop if heads-up. You could also consider when value betting the flop, if you get called, to make it look as though you are giving up on the turn in order to contradict players' notes on you.

At 10nl, I find there's a lot of 2nl players tired of being sucked out on by fish and decide to play out of their bankroll and play better players at 10nl. How you interpret this may be different to me, but i think there will be a lot of min. 3-bet bluffs, calling too much to hit draws, etc. Basically just try to figure out in each case why they'd call
 
sixpeppers

sixpeppers

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Total posts
94
Chips
0
Yeah I recently checked my cbet success percents and found them low and similar to yours. Instead of wondering if it was a leak, I realized that people are just calling flop bets way too frequently giving TONS more room for double and tripple barrel bluffs. Time to get aggro!
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
turn cbet 27.4%
success 33.9%

This is interesting. Seems it is leak of my turn cbet
So you cbet the flop 72% of the time but only bet again on the turn 27%? You're a floaters wet dream.
 
forsakenone

forsakenone

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Total posts
1,385
Chips
0
i think your flop cbet is too big and your turn cbet is too small.

you are one of those auto cbetters that i float with air in pos, as soon as they check it fire, easy game.
 
T

TheBowlBoy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Total posts
111
Chips
0
Against better players it can be a good idea to polarize your cbetting range on dry boards. This will lower your overall cbet stat a bit while still allowing you to get 2 streets of value out of more medium strength hands. For example, you raise preflop with A2 and the board comes AJ5. Villain is folding a lot on this board but you might get two streets of value out of a J or some PP if you check back the flop. Typically with a hand like this, you are going to need to check a street somewhere for pot control anyways.

At 10NL a lot of regs will pick up on your low turn cbet% and try to float you a lot. You should watch for this and 2 barrel more often vs them. Having a big gap like that between your flop and turn cbet stats is kind of bad.
 
P

puke

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Then should I lower my flop cbet or increase my turn cbet, if I play 10nl. People just like to call in the microstake.
i think your flop cbet is too big and your turn cbet is too small.

you are one of those auto cbetters that i float with air in pos, as soon as they check it fire, easy game.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
I think the flop c-bet is fine really, people give up way more than they should at 10nl, people actually call more at higher stakes because they realise, noone ever has a hand! It's not about getting the right numbers its about knowing why you're c-betting flops and turns, so play around with ranges and how they connect with different board textures etc.

Turn c-bet is too low though, read about board textures and how your opponents range may or may not of hit the particular boards, think if you have enough equity to bet again, will he fold a lot of his range? Is his range weak, strong etc etc, is he likely to check/raise? You probably just give up too much on turns where your opponent is clearly on a weak draw or a small pair where he cant stand aggression. It's something you wanna learn slowly, not just start betting turns without knowing why because if done wrong its gonna cost you a ton more than the loss of a very very small number of regulars realising they can float you.
 
P

puke

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Thank you. That is what I am worried about.spew more on the turn maybe will cost me more. I do not know if my turn cbet success is too low is because I cbet turn less.
Actually at 4nl my cbet turn is 30.4% and success is 25%.

Therefore now I know it is a problem. But I do not want to simplely cbet turn more. I need to be conservative. After all I still think my biggest problem is spew.


I think the flop c-bet is fine really, people give up way more than they should at 10nl, people actually call more at higher stakes because they realise, noone ever has a hand! It's not about getting the right numbers its about knowing why you're c-betting flops and turns, so play around with ranges and how they connect with different board textures etc.

Turn c-bet is too low though, read about board textures and how your opponents range may or may not of hit the particular boards, think if you have enough equity to bet again, will he fold a lot of his range? Is his range weak, strong etc etc, is he likely to check/raise? You probably just give up too much on turns where your opponent is clearly on a weak draw or a small pair where he cant stand aggression. It's something you wanna learn slowly, not just start betting turns without knowing why because if done wrong its gonna cost you a ton more than the loss of a very very small number of regulars realising they can float you.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Bet the turn when good cards hit. You have KJ and bet a Q83 flop. Go ahead and bet again when an Ace hits the turn ( you picked a st8 draw + the Ace will likely frighten away the small pairs).

Also know who the calling stations are (take notes!). There is no need to bluff them. Sometimes that means not even firing a cbet unless you have something (something could be as little as 2 overs btw). As a corollary, when you do hit say TPGK against the stations, fire all 3 streets. Tons of value to be had by value betting well and my guess is that you're checking back a lot of turns with some hands you probably should be value betting.

I do think your cbet is probably a little bit high (65 to 70% is the range I generally fall into) but your turn cbet is definitely too low.
 
forsakenone

forsakenone

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Total posts
1,385
Chips
0
cbeting turn is complicated, i have a stat on hud which tells me how often people give up to turn cbets or just plain turn bet.

some people will just not fold to a cbet, they fold to a cbet like 25% but they fold a lot to a double barrel, so especially on dry boards like 228T i double barrel.

What i am saying is that you should reduce your cbet slightly especially in 3 ways pot and on a wet board. with a 72% cbet i am pretty sure u cbet AKo on 67T with 2 clubs lets say. thats a flop I would check.

but def put some stats on hud, or on pop up hud to help you out on finding out when people fold to a bet.

I have it like this on my hud:

fold to flop cbet, fold to turn bet (but i also look on fold to turn cbet when i click on the hud), and fold to river bet.

another useful stat at 10nl would be went to showdown WTSD, a general good went to showdown is somewhere around 25% for 6 max, pretty much 5% above is too much. 30% went to showdown is too high, 20% is too low, figure out what this means and use it to your advantage.
 
Last edited:
F

fugitive67

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Total posts
275
Chips
0
now i'm a micro player and more tourney than cash, but i've observed that more and more it seems to me that you have to be willing to fire that 2nd bullet on the turn

there's less respect for the pre-flop raise / c-bet b/c it is such a standard play, which i guess makes sense ... a call gives the villian another card and a chance you might slow down ... a little passive for my tastes, but still effective vs. certain players
 
Top