Cash game grind from the bottom up 2NL and beyond!!!

Going to start grinding some cash games, and starting at the bottom.

Basically myself and Alfie chatting here and there and figure we would both do some 2nl grinding on stars for the month of april, gonna be posting some hands and graphs and all that fun stuff up itt I'm sure.

It's going to be a learning experience for me in posting some hands for review, basically something I have done little to none of as active as I am on cc but something I want to get into doing. There will be lots for me to learn I'm sure even from the bowels of cash at 2nl, just in enhancing my ability to analyze hands and better understand some of the many hud stats that are available.

I'll be starting my grind tomorrow evening, likely look to start with 6 tables 6max deep and see how it goes from there. I will be looking back over hands after each session, and will set a goal on myself to post at least 1 hand / table played....so 6 tables gonna find at least 6 hands to post. Eventually will as the tital states go beyond 2nl but personally I wanna do a proven winrate over a decent sample of hands.

I know, sounds more like a challenge thread right....technically it is but because its where we will be posting our hands etc for analysis I thought it would fit well in the cash sub-forum.

So, any feedback, comments, constructive-critisizm welcome. Maybe I can be up playing against zack in a couple of months LOL

nice one dave, look forward to this...will start a session tonight at some point and post some sesh stats and any hands that are interesting...

Abit underolled for the challenge at $20 but should be fine.

Great Dave. Looking forward to reading your posts and hopefully seeing you at a few tables

Yup, stars (thus why I won't be playing until tomorrow night, excluded myself from cash on stars a while back cause i was in this thing of playing PLO zoom and getting my ass kicked by variance with rivers going against me, so just set it to exclude). Put in a request like 2am this morning to unlock for up to 5nl, and look forward to doing some cash grinding.

FR or 6max ?

Assuming non-zoom tables ?

non-zoom, 6max is the plan for now (per indication in OP )

BluffMeAllIn said:

non-zoom, 6max is the plan for now (per indication in OP )

Click to expand...

oh haha my bad lol how did i miss that

good luck man

redwards92 said:

oh haha my bad lol how did i miss that

good luck man

Click to expand...

haha no worries, thx

So as indicated no access to cash tables on stars until tomorrow, or well 3ish hours from now. So i decided to play a little 2nl on ft to warm up a little. FYI 2nl rush has killed the regular tables, basically sat at 4 empty tables waiting for people until a seat came available on a table and then eventually some people sat at two of the other tables although was 3 and 4 handed mostly.

Anyhow, figured i would pull out a couple of hands, three in particular come to mind:

Hand #1

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 135 BB (VPIP: 40.40, PFR: 33.77, 3Bet Preflop: 4.08, Hands: 155)
UTG: 37 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (CO): 138 BB
BTN: 68.5 BB (VPIP: 30.88, PFR: 2.94, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 68)
SB: 73 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J<font color='red'>♥</font> K<font color='red'>♥</font>

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J<font color='red'>♦</font> T<font color='black'>♣</font> 7<font color='black'>♠</font>
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BTN calls 6 BB, fold

Turn: (21.5 BB, 2 players) 6<font color='red'>♦</font>
Hero bets 14.5 BB, BTN raises to 59.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 45 BB

River: (140.5 BB, 2 players) A<font color='black'>♠</font>





Hand #2

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BB: 64 BB (VPIP: 46.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
Hero (UTG): 120 BB
CO: 40 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 7.33, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 151)
BTN: 88 BB (VPIP: 77.78, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8<font color='red'>♥</font> 8<font color='black'>♣</font>

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J<font color='black'>♣</font> 6<font color='black'>♣</font> A<font color='red'>♥</font>
BB checks, Hero bets 6.5 BB, BTN calls 6.5 BB, fold

Turn: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 9<font color='black'>♣</font>
Hero bets 12.5 BB, BTN raises to 25 BB, Hero calls 12.5 BB ------ The min raise is a clear indication I'm beat here right, as loose and fishy as his stats indicate even though only 9 hands

River: (72.5 BB, 2 players) J<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, BTN bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB






Hand #3

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 140 BB
BB: 110.5 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
UTG: 19.5 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 79.5 BB (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
CO: 57.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 43.18, PFR: 36.36, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 136)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9<font color='red'>♥</font> 8<font color='red'>♥</font>

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, MP calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 4 players) 5<font color='red'>♥</font> 6<font color='red'>♦</font> Q<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, BB bets 5.5 BB, UTG calls 5.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, BB raises to 62.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 137.5 BB and is all-in, BB calls 45.5 BB and is all-in

***obv he isn't folding to my shove, so the question here is with the flush draw and gutshot how good/bad is my shove in this spot.

Essentially I am figuring to be up against the top pair, good or top kicker type of hand whereby all my outs are live. So I would have the 9 heart outs and 4x 7 outs, so 16 outs twice is like 60/40 in this spot. I felt it was shove or fold as he only had the 45.5bb behind but felt like my equity was too good to fold.....so ended up committing an additional 88 bb in to win the 231.5bb's pot, so does this mean for this to be +EV I needed at least roughly 40% equity as its 88/231.5 = 0.38?

Obviously this is all kind of new so I will take any help/info/pointers on such math as to if I am understanding correctly or completely out to lunch .

Thanks all

Hand 1, fold turn

Hand 2, fold turn

Hand 3 don't mind the shove with a flush draw and gut shot even though it is only a 9 high flush draw. High variance play but not horrible. I personally would of flatted flop with only a 9 high flush draw, nut flush draw I might have raised.

GL guys.

When you post hands from PT4 do not preview or edit the post after pasting them in, it messes up the formatting and makes them harder to read, like in your hands above

hand 1- fold turn, looks like you're beat here (set sixes,89)
when passive fish reraise into you like that, top pair is
rarely good...could even have like 67 for 2 pair here or TJ

hand 2- fold turn, same reason as other hand, once fish
re raises you're rarely ahead.

hand 3- call flop, as played fold to bb raise....not really
worth going to town on a flush draw and a gutter imo.

thx mm, is that why I end up with font tags spelled out?

thanks for the feedback iplay and alf, yeah couple of mistakes against the fish, in hand1 and 2 and as iplay mentions certainly a higher varience play in hand 3 with being on the unmade hand even if I felt I was getting the correct price to reshove.....

BluffMeAllIn said:

thx mm, is that why I end up with font tags spelled out?

Click to expand...

yep I think you can still type in the box after pasting the hand, but if you edit the post or do a preview it messes up

micromachine said:

yep I think you can still type in the box after pasting the hand, but if you edit the post or do a preview it messes up

Click to expand...

ah, makes sense guess it does something funny to the html. Thanks for pointing that out mm, I had been wondering if maybe I was doing something wrong as most peoples look so perdy and i was getting these ugly tags lol.

in, can't read those hands tho

I have makeshift modified the three hands to make them more readable in the quote below.

BluffMeAllIn said:

Hand #1

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 135 BB (VPIP: 40.40, PFR: 33.77, 3Bet Preflop: 4.08, Hands: 155)
UTG: 37 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (CO): 138 BB
BTN: 68.5 BB (VPIP: 30.88, PFR: 2.94, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 68)
SB: 73 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♥K♥
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J♦T♣7♠
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BTN calls 6 BB, fold

Turn: (21.5 BB, 2 players) 6♦
Hero bets 14.5 BB, BTN raises to 59.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 45 BB

River: (140.5 BB, 2 players) A♠





Hand #2

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BB: 64 BB (VPIP: 46.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
Hero (UTG): 120 BB
CO: 40 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 7.33, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 151)
BTN: 88 BB (VPIP: 77.78, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8♥8♣

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J♣6♣A♥
BB checks, Hero bets 6.5 BB, BTN calls 6.5 BB, fold

Turn: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 9♣
Hero bets 12.5 BB, BTN raises to 25 BB, Hero calls 12.5 BB ------ The min raise is a clear indication I'm beat here right, as loose and fishy as his stats indicate even though only 9 hands

River: (72.5 BB, 2 players) J♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB






Hand #3

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 140 BB
BB: 110.5 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
UTG: 19.5 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 79.5 BB (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
CO: 57.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 43.18, PFR: 36.36, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 136)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♥8♥
UTG raises to 2.5 BB, MP calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 4 players) 5♥6♦Q♥
Hero checks, BB bets 5.5 BB, UTG calls 5.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, BB raises to 62.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 137.5 BB and is all-in, BB calls 45.5 BB and is all-in

***obv he isn't folding to my shove, so the question here is with the flush draw and gutshot how good/bad is my shove in this spot.

Essentially I am figuring to be up against the top pair, good or top kicker type of hand whereby all my outs are live. So I would have the 9 heart outs and 4x 7 outs, so 16 outs twice is like 60/40 in this spot. I felt it was shove or fold as he only had the 45.5bb behind but felt like my equity was too good to fold.....so ended up committing an additional 88 bb in to win the 231.5bb's pot, so does this mean for this to be +EV I needed at least roughly 40% equity as its 88/231.5 = 0.38?

Obviously this is all kind of new so I will take any help/info/pointers on such math as to if I am understanding correctly or completely out to lunch .

Thanks all

Click to expand...

In.

I have started a 6max 2nl grind, have about 60K hands since Feb. 20th. I will start a thread as well, and will follow this one.

GL Dave!!!

Hand 3. It appears you're being at least somewhat optimistic in counting your outs. For instance, is Ah Kh so unlikely that you can completely remove it from his range? Also, your outs aren't clean if he has a redraw with say a set or a high H.

1, b/f turn, can go smaller around 1/2 half.

2, 88, not betting flop, not betting turn, folding turn

3, BB leading range is actually uberstrong, so i just call flop bet since we have good equity and are getting a good price and don't expect much fold equity.

as played if he is never folding why is shoving better than calling?

Many thanks all for the feedback, glad to see so many dropping in to help out

yeah in hand 3, seems the better move would have been to flat the bet and evaluate on the turn. Like you said Arjonius there is certainly the possibily that I am crushed to a 7, 8, or 9 in the case he had the AKhh and looking for no H, A or K to hit, or in the case of AhQc or something that the heart redraw is still there.

With bb having just flat pre there are quite the few hands he could have had which smash the board, sets two pair......i mean he is getting like 7-1 to call pre or something, 1.5bb for a 10bb pot.......so I obviously didn't take as much into consideration as I should in taking my line to reraise this flop.

Regarding the shove rather than calling, he only had 44ish bb left behind so regardless of what comes on the turn even if I miss but still consider my outs clean (which obviously I did, although much possibility I could have been wrong there) to the river I would be getting 6 to 1 in calling 44 to win like 230ish with still a 25+% equity, however if i hit the flush on the turn and he gives up then I will not win that 44 bb. This probably makes no sense, i gave a call to his 3-bet no thought because of what I just mentioned.....what would have a call to his 3-bet with him having only 44bb behind make sense?

No one is going to give up for 1/5 pot and on paired turns our outs are no longer clean, see no reason shoving is better than calling

Also him having over flush draws isn't the end of the world, since we pick up pair outs

got a nice 40 min session in...just 2 tables atm till i get up to speed with 2nl again and especially 6max as ive not played it too much...played quite well overall but think i need to adjust some hud stats and edit the pop up abit...




also a hand i was abit unsure off

poker stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

BB ($1.73)
UTG ($4.59)
MP ($3.04)
Hero (Button) ($2.02)
SB ($2.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , A
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises $0.08, 1 fold, BB calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.25) A , A , 8 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.02, Hero raises $0.16, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.57) 10 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.02, Hero raises $0.36, UTG calls $0.34

River: ($1.29) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.02, Hero raises $0.66, UTG calls $0.64

Total pot: $2.61

Results below: