C
CaptainKout
Rock Star
Silver Level
**I'll post cliffnotes below for those that don't like "wall of text" formatting**
I'm seriously struggling with one of the most basic poker concepts and I could use some help thinking through it.
When you are playing calling station type fish should you be playing more or less hands? I already had a thread about fit/fold fish(weak tight or weak loose if we're lucky) who will only call if they hit a big pair and it makes sense to iso them with a huge range and take their money on the flop. However a slightly different breed of fish, the calling station fish, who will go to the river hoping for a backdoor flush or call three streets with pocket deuces and no straight or flush draws (which hit a set on the river to my dismay) are more difficult. These are the same ones who limp with everything so I end up value betting myself with AJ for three streets against their AK(they'll call with mid/bottom pair so I keep betting my top pair.)
First and most obvious problem is that I'm overplaying the top pair hands and I know that, I'm working on it. Next tho, is that they will call down forever so my weaker made hands now have value to be gathered, right? But how much should I be betting these hands? Its happened a lot that my K10 runs into KQ which confounds me because they limped in the cutoff!! Are tp weak kicker hands just calling hands or get to the showdown as cheaply as possible type hands? What if the board has draws, then do I punish the draws or is it more likely that I am value betting myself like I said before?
When it comes to opening hands, since they have no fold equity I want hands that hit flops well, typical stuff. But I can hit a monster and take them for all their worth whenever I do so it might be worth playing some speculative hands if they have a full stack(when they are short-stacked obviously stick to nitty range). But then is raising with my spec hands worth it?
What about raise sizing, if they'll call a big raise should I make a huge raise with my KJ-AK(workhorse drawing hands) which are likely solid agaisnt their range but still drawing hands at the moment? What about AA-1010? My thought is that these are made hands so everything is a valuebet which makes me think bigger is better. But I can't take value from them if they aren't in the hand so should I keep it smaller so they call with their 107o and give me three streets with mid pair?
What about multiway? Say a nit raises and I can take him off the hand 60%(wicked high) of the time with a 3bet but the station in the bb isn't likely to stay in the hand. The nit won't play past the flop unless he's hit something his top pair or occasional set and the station will stay in no matter what. I know that even aces aren't that strong multiway but they're a lot stronger against nits who won't be making weird straights or anything and my real desire is to take the station to value town.
I watch a lot of videos on DTB and all the time they say things like "I could 3bet here but theres a fish in the blinds so . . . .(and tail off)" then 3 bet anyways. What are they thinking? I should probably ask them directly but cc is my go to forum.
I'm seriously struggling with one of the most basic poker concepts and I could use some help thinking through it.
When you are playing calling station type fish should you be playing more or less hands? I already had a thread about fit/fold fish(weak tight or weak loose if we're lucky) who will only call if they hit a big pair and it makes sense to iso them with a huge range and take their money on the flop. However a slightly different breed of fish, the calling station fish, who will go to the river hoping for a backdoor flush or call three streets with pocket deuces and no straight or flush draws (which hit a set on the river to my dismay) are more difficult. These are the same ones who limp with everything so I end up value betting myself with AJ for three streets against their AK(they'll call with mid/bottom pair so I keep betting my top pair.)
First and most obvious problem is that I'm overplaying the top pair hands and I know that, I'm working on it. Next tho, is that they will call down forever so my weaker made hands now have value to be gathered, right? But how much should I be betting these hands? Its happened a lot that my K10 runs into KQ which confounds me because they limped in the cutoff!! Are tp weak kicker hands just calling hands or get to the showdown as cheaply as possible type hands? What if the board has draws, then do I punish the draws or is it more likely that I am value betting myself like I said before?
When it comes to opening hands, since they have no fold equity I want hands that hit flops well, typical stuff. But I can hit a monster and take them for all their worth whenever I do so it might be worth playing some speculative hands if they have a full stack(when they are short-stacked obviously stick to nitty range). But then is raising with my spec hands worth it?
What about raise sizing, if they'll call a big raise should I make a huge raise with my KJ-AK(workhorse drawing hands) which are likely solid agaisnt their range but still drawing hands at the moment? What about AA-1010? My thought is that these are made hands so everything is a valuebet which makes me think bigger is better. But I can't take value from them if they aren't in the hand so should I keep it smaller so they call with their 107o and give me three streets with mid pair?
What about multiway? Say a nit raises and I can take him off the hand 60%(wicked high) of the time with a 3bet but the station in the bb isn't likely to stay in the hand. The nit won't play past the flop unless he's hit something his top pair or occasional set and the station will stay in no matter what. I know that even aces aren't that strong multiway but they're a lot stronger against nits who won't be making weird straights or anything and my real desire is to take the station to value town.
I watch a lot of videos on DTB and all the time they say things like "I could 3bet here but theres a fish in the blinds so . . . .(and tail off)" then 3 bet anyways. What are they thinking? I should probably ask them directly but cc is my go to forum.
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