Calling on the river with marginal holdings OOP

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CactusCat

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When I'm the aggressor and/or IP, I usually know where I'm at. I extract max value with my monster hands and know when to get out when I get outdrawn or am up against two pair or suspect a set.

I make a raise with KQ for example, pick up a few callers, then get a tiny minraise, everyone including myself calls. The flop comes dry with a K. The minraiser bets, I call, everyone else folds. He bets pot-sized on the turn, and on the river he bets pot-sized again.

I can beat a bluff, but if he's value-betting, I'm probably no good. I have KQ with top pair on a dry board and he bets into the whole table. He could be doing this with AA or AK, and I can only beat KJ which he isn't reraising me pre with. Is he so bad that with multiple microstakes calling stations he's doing this with QQ or JJ? I can't pull the trigger to make the call and end up folding out of confusion.

I try to avoid scenarios like this, but every session I have one or two hands like this that are marginal and put a dent in my profit.

How do the experienced and skilled players deal with playing OOP? I try to avoid playing out of position and usually do, but at the same time, isn't it key to further developing your game to be able to play well OOP as well as IP?
 
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Siberian13

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You said "I try to avoid scenarios like this, but every session I have one or two hands like this that are marginal and put a dent in my profit."

So if you stay away from those scenarios it sounds like you will be profitable.

The only other thing I can think of is to not check and let them bet each time. Lead out with a bet on the flop and see where you are at. Playing OOP and calling every step of the way doesn't really give you any information. I would imagine you lose to AK most of the time in with KQ in that scenario. Of course it depends a lot on the player and how he has been betting during your session.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

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Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth and call rivers.....especially if you're calling full pot on turn. I am NOT advocating becoming a station on the river, but in some of those hands you should be making your decision on the turn....plus how many times are the boards THAT dry?

Post some hands...
 
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Siberian13

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A2345Razz - not gonna lie, can't stop looking at your photo. Does that make me a bad person? Still trying to figure out the site, so I will get a photo up soon but whoever approves the photos wouldn't allow my first choice.
 
John A

John A

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For one you can just bet the turn after you check/call the flop. This way you can set the price you want to pay for your hand and if you're raised you can fold if it makes sense. You keep this unexploitable against regs by check/calling and then betting all of your hands on the turn OOP.... air, two pair, sets, tptk, overs, etc...

You're just basically taking back control of the hand, and if you know how to do it correctly on the right board textures and opponents, it's quite effective.
 
Shumkoolie

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Poker Zion makes some good points. The only thing I could really add in this spot is that I think the C-Bet on the flop is expected by villain here that check-calling is probably the better play, then leading out on the turn (delayed C-Bet). I think you probably obtain more information from your opponent here about how much (s)he loves her/his hand. Also, you're not having to call a pot-sized turn bet, thus dictating your price as mentioned by PZ.

You'll probably save more chips this way if you mix up your play and do that from time to time. The C-Bet on the flop is so expected that your leading on the flop will not get the respect it would have some years ago. Of course you can use that to your advantage especially if you flop a real monster (especially if you know for SURE that villain will make big bets on the turn and river).
 
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