Calling relatively tight players preflop.

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watchtowel

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I struggle calling in position with hands like KJ, QJ J10 etc. Suited connectors and PPs aren't as difficult to play because you normally flop really strong or really weak, but with those other hands it is difficult to play when you hit a pair. should I not be calling these on the button at all?
 
billdogg

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It's always player dependant, but against a TAG player, calling with low broadways is usually a leak and will bleed money.
 
acky100

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You should be looking at their position , if they're positionally aware which a lot of tight players of are you can look how much theyre raising by position, to get an idea of how your hand stands against their range.

Other things to look for would be how often they c-bet, if theyre only c-betting when they hit then its going to be a lot easier to play against them postflop, just as if they were c-betting too much on the flop and giving up on the turn when they miss.

Generally though if you're calling raises from tightish players with KJ you're making a really big mistake, how many hands are you ahead of with KJ that he raises? And then the time you hit the J or K you get crushed when he has AJ or or AK...
 
billdogg

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Generally though if you're calling raises from tightish players with KJ you're making a really big mistake, how many hands are you ahead of with KJ that he raises? And then the time you hit the J or K you get crushed when he has AJ or or AK...

^^Strongly this. Hands like KJ will either win a small pot or lose a big pot when called from a raise. If you spike a pair, he will most likely give up his medium pp's and such, or you will get value towned for better broadways.
 
CistaCista

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Hands like KJ will either win a small pot or lose a big pot when called from a raise.
The size of the raise has not been mentioned. I often call if the raise is 2BB and fold if it is 4BB. If I am on the button with KQ or maybe KJs I can 3-bet the 2BB rise. How does that sound?
 
CistaCista

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You should be looking at their position , if they're positionally aware which a lot of tight players of are you can look how much theyre raising by position, to get an idea of how your hand stands against their range.
I didn't understand a word lol
"positionally aware" does this just mean if they bet less often from EP? That is very basic.
"how much they are raising by position" - don't most players use a standard bet of 3-4 BBs?

I'd be grateful if you (or someone) can elaborate, thx!
 
Worak

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You should be looking at their position , if they're positionally aware which a lot of tight players of are you can look how much theyre raising by position, to get an idea of how your hand stands against their range.

Other things to look for would be how often they c-bet, if theyre only c-betting when they hit then its going to be a lot easier to play against them postflop, just as if they were c-betting too much on the flop and giving up on the turn when they miss.

Generally though if you're calling raises from tightish players with KJ you're making a really big mistake, how many hands are you ahead of with KJ that he raises? And then the time you hit the J or K you get crushed when he has AJ or or AK...

I didn't understand a word lol
"positionally aware" does this just mean if they bet less often from EP? That is very basic.
"how much they are raising by position" - don't most players use a standard bet of 3-4 BBs?

I'd be grateful if you (or someone) can elaborate, thx!

HEM and PT3 break down ranges by position - look at the range you're playing against (the general number covers all positions )

cliff note: Most good players will bet between 2.1BB and 2.9 BB thus making the pot and potential Cbet smaller.

An example for different ranges by position:

Player A ((EP 8/5/3.5, BTN 24/16/3.5)- Overall 18/12/3.5) bets x3BB utg +1

You're BTN holding AcJh

UTG+1 raising range could be something like: 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo

Against that range your AJo doesn't look so good:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.961% 64.28% 02.68% 56132840 2342335.00 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 1: 33.039% 30.36% 02.68% 26509994 2342335.00 { AcJh }

If you had taken his whole range (18/12) you'd be flipping:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.878% 47.47% 04.41% 107295658 9961471.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+ }
Hand 1: 48.122% 43.71% 04.41% 98805528 9961471.00 { AcJh }
 
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johnnytt

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It's always player dependant, but against a TAG player, calling with low broadways is usually a leak and will bleed money.
+1 those hands are trash and will just cost you money pretty much.
 
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carroll3

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any pocket pair i usually call.
 
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RVladimiro

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You should be looking at their position , if they're positionally aware which a lot of tight players of are you can look how much theyre raising by position, to get an idea of how your hand stands against their range.

What acky said. I found that it is much easier to decide your calls depending on the player quality that it is from position alone. I even created my own popup for PT3 hud and the first line is VPIP by position. This gives me two bits of information: what is his position awareness like acky mentioned but also what is his range in that position.

Against a player that is 25/20 but has 8% UTG VPIP, I'm much more inclined to fold dominated hands like KJ KT QJ QT. But if a player is 25/20 and opens 25% in any position, if I have position on him, by all means, I will call with almost any broadway.

Not so long ago, I just used to raise or call with the same range per position. That doesn't make sense to me now the same way I always felt ranges itself are pretty restrictive. Some tables and players ask for wide ranges others for tighter ranges.
 
Amroth

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Dont play with KJ againts those players, always play againts them im position, it means u speak after them.

Study their range and hit hard when u think they miss. If they keep on it, just fold
 
rssurfer54

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What acky said. I found that it is much easier to decide your calls depending on the player quality that it is from position alone. I even created my own popup for PT3 hud and the first line is VPIP by position. This gives me two bits of information: what is his position awareness like acky mentioned but also what is his range in that position.

Against a player that is 25/20 but has 8% UTG VPIP, I'm much more inclined to fold dominated hands like KJ KT QJ QT. But if a player is 25/20 and opens 25% in any position, if I have position on him, by all means, I will call with almost any broadway.

Not so long ago, I just used to raise or call with the same range per position. That doesn't make sense to me now the same way I always felt ranges itself are pretty restrictive. Some tables and players ask for wide ranges others for tighter ranges.

Just so you know, a quick way to do a rough calculation of this is by comparing his pfr to his attempt to steal. If he is 12/10, but his steal percentage is 20%, you know he less positionally aware than if it was 40%.
 
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RVladimiro

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Just so you know, a quick way to do a rough calculation of this is by comparing his pfr to his attempt to steal. If he is 12/10, but his steal percentage is 20%, you know he less positionally aware than if it was 40%.

Very good point mate, thanks.
 
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