Calling Ranges from the Button

TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
I want to attempt to bring in a little discussion on playing from the button and what ranges we should have in certain situation. Lately I have realized I might not be using the button to its fullest potential and am not flatting enough in position (this could be because I have it engraved in my brain that merge games are so aggro and I'll get sqeezed every time but I'm sure it's not that way).

So the main situation will be a loose/passive fish limps (we will say 40/10) MP and a standard reg (15/12 with no history or reads) isolates to 4bb's. We are on the button and obviously the situation depends on who's in the blinds so I will give options and if somebody can help with what their calling ranges are in this spot that would be awesome.

A) Both blinds are nits

B) Both blinds are regs who squeeze 5-8%

C) Both blinds are passive fish

D) SB is a an aggro reg who we have history with that squeezes 11% and BB is a 70/45 aggro fish

What is your calling range in these spots?

Edit: Fwiw this is directed towards FR but idk if that should change much
 
C

cheaptrix

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Total posts
310
Chips
0
i'm thinking small pairs only. depending on other stats you should fold/3-bet the rest of your range.
villains fold to 3-bet %, PFR by position %... other than that not sure. maybe someone else with more experience can chime in.
 
TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
Surely are range will be wider than small pp's and even those will be hard to play because we can't set mine vs the CO's open
 
C

cheaptrix

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Total posts
310
Chips
0
Surely are range will be wider than small pp's and even those will be hard to play because we can't set mine vs the CO's open

like i said, maybe someone else with more experience can chime in but i don't think we should be flatting with much. once you can define villains range then we should put pressure on him with a 3-bet or fold.
why do you say you can't set mine a 4bb raise? assuming 60+bb i am set mining.
 
TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
like i said, maybe someone else with more experience can chime in but i don't think we should be flatting with much. once you can define villains range then we should put pressure on him with a 3-bet or fold.
why do you say you can't set mine a 4bb raise? assuming 60+bb i am set mining.

Why would you not want to play in a pot with the fish who limped?

I said you generally can't set mine vs a CO open because his range is too wide. But with the fish limping, calling is obv good
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Chips
20
Once you flat, esp if the sb is passive and/or the blinds are nits, its likely that we will have a decent size 3/4 way pot with posn. So we want hands that will flop decent equity, or near nut hands. So ill generally flat pairs 22-1010 sometimes 3ball the tens, and suited connectors from 56s-KQs, off suit connectors from 10-9 -KQo.

If the sb/bb is an aggro reg that likes squeezing, i tighten way up, and almost play a tight 3% 3bet range.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Total posts
2,683
Chips
0
Im quite an aggressive player so tbh other than mid low PP which obv is a flat, I'd rather 3 bet or fold most hands, although villains range does sometimes warrant flatting other hands. I rarely flat raises preflop, maybe thats a mistake but I feel that way I control pots more and rarely get into a dominated situation.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
weird, am i the only one who doesn't like squeezing fish out of pots?

Interesting idea tyler, i've been wondering if i don't call wide enough IP also. One thing for sure is i'm pretty much never 3betting here with anything i want to play, especially big hands.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
A) Both blinds are nits

B) Both blinds are regs who squeeze 5-8%

C) Both blinds are passive fish

D) SB is a an aggro reg who we have history with that squeezes 11% and BB is a 70/45 aggro fish
A) I only 3-bet like JJ+/AKo. I flat AKs, and pretty much anything decent. Like maybe 54s+, 64s+, ect. I love playing pots in position against players I have good control over.
B) I start flatting AKo and maybe aces to squeeze trap, and cut out a huge chunk of my flatting range.
C) Same as A.
D) Same as B.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
i'm pretty much never 3betting here with anything i want to play, especially big hands.
I think your aversion to 3-betting is pretty terrible. It seems like you're constantly looking for reasons to flat AK/JJ+. Constantly playing smaller pots with big SPRs is surely a huge leak with these hands.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
I think your aversion to 3-betting is pretty terrible. It seems like you're constantly looking for reasons to flat AK/JJ+. Constantly playing smaller pots with big SPRs is surely a huge leak with these hands.

Nope, 3betting any sort of value hand when we're IP and the fish is going to fold over 80% (probably more in my experience) is terrible, it's very standard to flat hands to let fish in and the only players that arent doing this in my games are the breakeven regs it seems like
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
Nope, 3betting any sort of value hand when we're IP and the fish is going to fold over 80% (probably more in my experience) is terrible, it's very standard to flat hands to let fish in and the only players that arent doing this in my games are the breakeven regs it seems like
I agree, but don't like seeing it written down in such a public place! ;)

*hopes no BE regs are reading this thread*
 
O

orangepeeleo

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Total posts
3,148
Chips
0
A lot of the reggy guys that will iso there will also probs flat a 3bet if the fish has came along too, i get not 3betting to keep the fish in, but with the blinds still to act, if we dont 3bet say KK there and then get 2 callers from the blinds we're pretty screwed playing in a small pot on the flop and a big SPR when we surely want the opposite.

Plus, fish make bad calls, so why not 3bet? Fish has every chance of coming along anyways, except now the flop pots bigger and not as MW, so its just an easier hand to play
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Total posts
4,681
Chips
0
So acky are you flatting all pairs+AK IP?Or are you 3betting small pairs?What are you squeezing with Ax,sc,KQo, etc.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
Of course im 3betting if the fish is likely to limp and call a 3bet, but most fish definitely do not just happily call 3bets after limping. Cant really say what im squeezing and stuff, 3betting when fish have raised and regs are in is totally different as theyre more likely to call and flatting would be pretty bad then a lot. Obviously very dependant on lots of stuffs
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
A lot of the reggy guys that will iso there will also probs flat a 3bet if the fish has came along too, i get not 3betting to keep the fish in, but with the blinds still to act, if we dont 3bet say KK there and then get 2 callers from the blinds we're pretty screwed playing in a small pot on the flop and a big SPR when we surely want the opposite.

Plus, fish make bad calls, so why not 3bet? Fish has every chance of coming along anyways, except now the flop pots bigger and not as MW, so its just an easier hand to play
+1 thats why they are fish because they love calling , especialy pre flop
there is two in the pot already like orange said , all the limping and calling is giving sb bb nice pot odds to call , leaving us with a big hand , with 4 callers ,
big hand, heaps of callers plus big SPR ratio = average spot .
Also shouldnt you be balancing your big pairs with squeezies to stay unpredictible ?
 
D

djpokerman

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Total posts
14
Chips
0
limp fish

if these fish are limping you need to raise the button 70% ant cb 90% with no more thatn 2 callers because they will miss the flop approx 70% of the time and you will pick up the pot
 
Top