Calling from the blinds

akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Even though ive been trying to tighten up from the blinds, I think im still playing too loosely. I think im spewing calling 3xBB then x/f a lot of flops. Playing OOP against fish is also just not working and TAGs seem to cbet virtually every flop.

I might start only calling 22-TT to set mine and 3 bet JJ+, AK and AQ, and just fold everything else. Is this too tight at 6 max? My 3-bet is 8/9% so I dont really want to be 3betting a lot OOP as well?

What are your calling ranges for 6max from blinds? How much should I open up against bad players, if at all?
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
Thats fine but sometimes you have to loosen up since its short handed at the same time, mixing it up not to read easily.

When it comes to calling ranges, in a way I would relate it to gap concept theory.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Yeah I will have to loosen up sometimes when it becomes obvious that im nitting out in the blinds. I could add suited broadways in and AJo KQo. Most fish wont even realise im playing tight from the blinds anyway, so it shouldnt be much of an issue as I try to only play at tables with at least 2 fish (6handed)
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
Chips
0
I think what i read is fine strategy, tight but also if you miss you won't lose that much from the blinds if you play this range which you said.
 
T

thatgreekdude

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Total posts
1,024
Awards
1
Chips
1
just call cards that play well against openers range?
 
VTedd

VTedd

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 4, 2014
Total posts
30
Chips
0
I think you need to not let go of your hand as quickly as you seem to be doing. If cash games were about who hit every board harder with their hand, the luckiest player of the session would come out with the most money. Winning players not only play their strong holdings to extract maximum value, but also do their best to maximize the value of their bad holdings too. This means you need to mix in bluffs, float more flops, and try to read your opponents hands a little better. Think about check-raising flops, floating with ace high, leading out on scary boards, and coming up with ways to get your opponent to fold the best hand. Sometimes a check fold is all you can do, especially with a low pocket pair when you miss the set. Just try to really think about your moves and what your opponents bets mean before you release a hand that could quite likely be the best hand down to the river. Remember, there is a 60% chance that your opponent missed the flop, use this to your advantage! Hope this helps!
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
I think you need to not let go of your hand as quickly as you seem to be doing. If cash games were about who hit every board harder with their hand, the luckiest player of the session would come out with the most money. Winning players not only play their strong holdings to extract maximum value, but also do their best to maximize the value of their bad holdings too. This means you need to mix in bluffs, float more flops, and try to read your opponents hands a little better. Think about check-raising flops, floating with ace high, leading out on scary boards, and coming up with ways to get your opponent to fold the best hand. Sometimes a check fold is all you can do, especially with a low pocket pair when you miss the set. Just try to really think about your moves and what your opponents bets mean before you release a hand that could quite likely be the best hand down to the river. Remember, there is a 60% chance that your opponent missed the flop, use this to your advantage! Hope this helps!

You are totally right about me letting go of hands too early. I dunno whats going on with me at the minute, ive been on a rough run for a couple of weeks now, bad play and bad luck. I think im trying to lose the minimum, instead of risking to win the maximum! I can tell my play is not right. Its like im trying too hard and analyzing too much, im not sure!

Im trying hard to find out whats going wrong. I think im taking it too far, you know when people say to not bluff and play ABC poker at the micros. Im at 10NL now and it is different to, and definitely harder than 5. Most fish are not just betting with made hands (bottom/mid pairs) anymore, they are bluffing too. The regs are better and I come across a lot more Nits, and its like trying to get blood out of a stone.

I think more study on how to put people on ranges is needed. As well as floating, like you said, and generally being more aggressive in correct spots, where I happen to miss the board.

Any more help would be appreciated.
 
gattusoleon

gattusoleon

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2014
Total posts
48
Chips
0
calling the blinds isnt good strategy, best thta the another people think that i stronger
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
Just remember if LP only raises and you go into the pot headsup. It's going to be hard to get paid off setmining especially from Button or CO so your just burning money.


You'll make your pair 1 out of every 8 times on avg but how often we going to get paid? and how much will it cost us to 3bet or will our villain 4bet us?

It's just burning you money and if you flat your basically giving your opponent money anyway since like you said most players Cbet.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
I find hands like ATs or Prems work best when facing against a button range. Normally you'll find it's normal for some people just to play nothing but premium hands at SB (so you have more fold equity I find if you want to 3bet light). People tend to not respect BB enough, I don't know the reason perhaps ppl think they just playing to defend with a wider range of hands.

Suited connectors could be fun to play and trap your opponent. But their range will be so wide and you'll get crushed.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
here's my stats from the SB over like 30k hands: http://imgur.com/a/EqE74/all

most people are 3betting merged in the blinds vs LP opens, a lot more from the SB than the BB since most of the time you're closing the action there

for example 3betting AJo in the SB vs reg BTN opens is pretty standard

set mining vs reg LP opens seems awful considering how wide their ranges are and set mining with 88-TT seems even worse

hope this helps
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks guys
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
So we are supposed to fold small pairs or 3 bet but not call in the BB? What if the button has a low C-bet stat? He won't bet unless he hit his hand so we are not automatically losing the hand upon missing the set.
 
Fknife

Fknife

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Total posts
1,128
Chips
0
So we are supposed to fold small pairs or 3 bet but not call in the BB? What if the button has a low C-bet stat?

If you 3bet from the blinds and get called by BTN/CO you will be first to act so I guess you meant villain's high Fold to Cbet stat, right?


OR! You can call preflop with a small PP, x/c low flops or flops with one high card and hope for a cheap showdown.The other thing is, if the turn goes check-check you might consider check-raising/leading the river. Since villain would probably bet TP on the turn for value (on Axx, Kxx), by raising the river you can probably get lots of folds...At least that's what Tri Nguyen advises in his book :)
 
Last edited:
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
If you 3bet from the blinds and get called by BTN/CO you will be first to act so I guess you meant villain's high Fold to Cbet stat, right?


OR! You can call preflop with a small PP, x/c low flops or flops with one high card and hope for a cheap showdown.The other thing is, if the turn goes check-check you might consider check-raising/leading the river. Since villain would probably bet TP on the turn for value (on Axx, Kxx), by raising the river you can probably get lots of folds...At least that's what Tri Nguyen advises in his book :)

No I meant C-bet stat not the fold to C-bet. Because as you said we can get to showdown cheaper if the villain has a lower C betting stat.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Total posts
1,039
Chips
0
I think at 6 max if the button opens then you can try and put in a 3 bet with any ace or any pair just so that you can have the betting lead post flop. Therefore it will be you who can put in a c bet on the flop and if the villain whiffs the flop and if he is passive then you can take the pot down right there.

By not 3 betting you put yourself in a complete opposite situation where you check and villain 3bets and you have to fold a lot of times so try just not defending in blinds but 3bet them and be aggressive especially against weak opponents.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
I often 4 bet when the blind 3 bets my button and they usually fold. Even if they call with a monster and try to trap me I get to see the flop in position. I let my blinds go rather easily but I'll be very loose and aggressive on the button especially if it folds around to me.
 
S

SwiftHax

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Total posts
367
Chips
0
It depends on the position of the opener. Against EP, I will call with hands that won't be dominated like small pocket pairs and suited connectors hoping to hit. If it's a LP open I will 3-bet with most of my Aces, KT+ and any pocket pair, calling here is not an option. Suited connectors don't look so pretty anymore because your opponent will often be playing those hands, so don't look surprised when your 98 is outkicked by K9.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
It depends on the position of the opener. Against EP, I will call with hands that won't be dominated like small pocket pairs and suited connectors hoping to hit. If it's a LP open I will 3-bet with most of my Aces, KT+ and any pocket pair, calling here is not an option. Suited connectors don't look so pretty anymore because your opponent will often be playing those hands, so don't look surprised when your 98 is outkicked by K9.

At the micros many players aren't too positionally aware. I wouldn't think changing your range between MP and CO/BTN is going to matter, specifically at 6 max which I play. Why 3-bet with pocket pairs? You say you 3bet with K10 but won't play suited connectors if the CO or BTN opens? Seems like a strange range. Im not scrutinizing, just curious.
 
S

SwiftHax

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Total posts
367
Chips
0
Yes, I'm a 6-max player too. Thing is, people play with suited hands like K9 from LP, so you'll end up paying them with hands like 98s once you hit them.

Two unpaired hands miss the flop 66% of the time so why not have the betting lead on the flop with your pocket pairs?

3-betting with KT? People love to play suited connectors from those positions as well as hands like JT, QT and K9. I say, you're in good shape against them.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Yes, I'm a 6-max player too. Thing is, people play with suited hands like K9 from LP, so you'll end up paying them with hands like 98s once you hit them.

Two unpaired hands miss the flop 66% of the time so why not have the betting lead on the flop with your pocket pairs?

3-betting with KT? People love to play suited connectors from those positions as well as hands like JT, QT and K9. I say, you're in good shape against them.

A lot depends on Fold to 3bet and their attempt to steal %.

I usually find myself just calling with pocket pairs. Float the flop if the board is low and likely missed our opponent, then lead the turn.

3bet is a good shout though, then lead the flop if were called. Also if we hit our set were likely stacking villain if he picked up something on the flop after calling the 3bet pre.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
So today I folded 55 in the SB because I was playing too loose and I just thought that if I 3 bet again surely the button won't buy it this time.

The BB did call and I did hit my set. Bam that REALLY sucked.
 
S

SwiftHax

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Total posts
367
Chips
0
A lot depends on Fold to 3bet and their attempt to steal %.

I usually find myself just calling with pocket pairs. Float the flop if the board is low and likely missed our opponent, then lead the turn.

3bet is a good shout though, then lead the flop if were called. Also if we hit our set were likely stacking villain if he picked up something on the flop after calling the 3bet pre.
Can't go wrong with either I guess. I will more likely 3-bet the passive players pre-flop, but if I'm against an aggro player I can mix it up sometimes.
 
Top