Calling a tight players raise knowing im behind.

Dubstep

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Ok say im in the big blind and a tight player min raises and i have j9s. I say to myself ok only play two pair or better. And then i flop top pair and just check and call trying to keep the pot small while he bets every street and sure enough he flips over pocket kings and i lose a decent size pot. I have done this mistake more than a few times and i think it has something to do with my self discipline. Has anybody ever had this problem? And how did you overcome it? Anyone have any exercise that can strengthen my discipline? Or does this have nothing to do with discipline and could be a result of slightly tilting or any other problem?
 
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TStanniland

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Eventually, you will have made mistakes like this so many times that one day you just stop, and realize what you're doing. You will become more self disciplined in time.
 
S3mper

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If a tight player is playing tight and only min raising and your on the BB and you are isolated with just him calling with a hand with post flop potential is fine IMO.

Then when you hit top pair unless the villain completely bombs the flop I think you should peel off another card for a couple of reasons
1.) you may have the best hand if opponent has AK-AQ and will probably C bet 100% of the time
2. If you don't have the best hand you can always improve and more likely then not get paid when you hit

Now calling the turn bet is very dependent on the size of the opponents bet, If the player is tight and fires another barrel on the turn he is probably confirming what you already know which is you are behind, but if he makes a small enough bet calling the turn is a okay play (maybe)

If the Villain then fires the river and you don't improve and you feel like you are behind it's time to cut your losses and try not to tilt with the thought of "I should of just folded on the turn" It's fine to re think the hand and try to figure out if that's correct just don't tilt over it.
 
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ScottishMatt

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You don't call if you know you are behind. Folding is OK you know. Before defending your BB simply ask yourself whether you feel you can make profit this particular instance. There are times when I'll defend 76o and others where I'll fold A8o. There is so much more to it than simply your hand and your position. Take into account his position, his range, how your hand plays against that range, and whether you can outplay him postflop. Stack sizes also come into the equation as well, the shorter he is the less you should be playing speculative hands unless you have a major edge vs him.
 
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heAdstroMan

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depends on villains opening size, how often her raises the button, and how often he cbets the flop.

for example if the BTON min raises 60%, and cbets flop 25% then call J9s always, plus a bunch of other stuff.

similarly if villain 3x 15% and cbets 75%, then fold a lot in the BB.
 
Mr Sandbag

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This is not only related to discipline but to the "true value" of a hand. What is J9 really worth? Two pair, trips, straight (draw), flush (draw). Especially against a tight player. If he's c-betting almost every time he raises preflop, you may be able to call and see what happens on the turn, but if he is only betting the flop a portion of the time, I'd fold it and move on.

If you ask me, though, J9s isn't worth keeping against a tight player. More often than not, it will get you into trouble. Better decisions preflop make easier decisions postflop. Almost every weak player I've ever sat with spews chips by calling down with top pair/poor kicker. It could be one of the biggest leaks among losing players alongside chasing draws for any price.

Whenever you get a mediocre/speculative hand like J9s, 87s, etc., ask yourself what value the hand has and don't be afraid to fold the flop if you only catch a small piece of it. Otherwise, prepare to be disappointed at showdown and to watch your bankroll dwindle.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Are we talking microstakes here?

Personally I just wouldnt bother calling, if you are behind post flop against a tight player, this just isnt worthwhile. Unless perhaps we think they are tight but unable to fold one pair overcard type hands postflop.

At the micros there are so many loose bad players making poor decisions pre and post it not even necessary to get into situations calling pre when we know we are behind against a half competent player.

Plus the odds of you making two pair or better on the flop are not in your favour.
 
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matiusaa

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it is better to fold preflop, as simple as that, when you learn how to fold top pair on flop then you can start paying and search for draws, but first, learn how to read your opponent and fold
 
S3mper

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I kind of disagree with folding pre flop here it's a hand with post flop potential, your in the BB and its a min raise, Villain is giving us a shot to stack him at a cheap price (Assuming were both deep)

Just because a tight player makes a raise doesn't mean he has the nuts especially if he is raising from the BTN I'd fold hands like 2-3s here but a hand like JTs I may give a go..

It would be situation dependent OFC like how often he C bets how big his C bets are his s tack size my stack size...

Are we also folding all small to medium PP here too? We have a higher % of beating AA with J9s then a hand like pocket 7's.

If we miss we lose 1 BB if we hit and crack against a tight villain with AA were probably getting 50-100BB we lose 8 out of ten times so we lose around 8-16BB to win 50-100BB and I think we get paid off most of the time when we do hit

But IDK maybe this is a leak of mine too

^^^ None of this applies if you can't fold top pair though then I'd say fold pre
 
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AcesUp747

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Agree on the previous poster with regard to microstakes nits. Don't try to outplay them or chase. If you hit a set or a big draw, by all means milk them, but don't get fancy.

Level 1 thinking is enough to beat most of them.
 
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Tabazaba

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I kind of disagree with folding pre flop here it's a hand with post flop potential, your in the BB and its a min raise, Villain is giving us a shot to stack him at a cheap price (Assuming were both deep)

Just because a tight player makes a raise doesn't mean he has the nuts especially if he is raising from the BTN I'd fold hands like 2-3s here but a hand like JTs I may give a go..

It would be situation dependent OFC like how often he C bets how big his C bets are his s tack size my stack size...

Are we also folding all small to medium PP here too? We have a higher % of beating AA with J9s then a hand like pocket 7's.

If we miss we lose 1 BB if we hit and crack against a tight villain with AA were probably getting 50-100BB we lose 8 out of ten times so we lose around 8-16BB to win 50-100BB and I think we get paid off most of the time when we do hit

But IDK maybe this is a leak of mine too

^^^ None of this applies if you can't fold top pair though then I'd say fold pre

^^^^^agree 100% here
 
blueskies

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Calling a min raise from BB with suited J9 is ok. Just as long as you don't go crazy calling huge bets.

If he's tight and he's keeps firing huge bets, then fold. If he's betting small, you can call as you still have 5 outs, then evaluate based on board texture and bet sizing.
 
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DaMan1313

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I don't like calling with hands that may be dominated by his range practically any face card fits the discription i would hate to be up against jj and hit j9. I eill definetly call w suted connectors that don't include face cards specially when i know that the will stack off an over pair. But yea many times it gets me into trouble cuz ill flopp an open ended straight flush draw and miss mean while i lost two streets of money.
 
naruto_miu

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3bet minraises.

Why would we ever do this? Unless you were joking (Assuming you were joking), I didn't get the punch line (Just saying), that joke wasn't all that funny, it was bland (TBH):p
 
redcross

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You have to love the feeling of being behind and knowing you are going to most likely lose the hand and still calling. I usually find myself doing this after losing to a suckout and reeling to get my chips back. Playing mad and not patient never works out well for anyone.
 
Loonbat

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It depends on how deep you both are. It comes down to implied odds for me, given you know you're behind to start.
 
Cafeman

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Ok say im in the big blind and a tight player min raises and i have j9s. I say to myself ok only play two pair or better. And then i flop top pair and just check and call trying to keep the pot small while he bets every street and sure enough he flips over pocket kings and i lose a decent size pot. I have done this mistake more than a few times and i think it has something to do with my self discipline. Has anybody ever had this problem? And how did you overcome it? Anyone have any exercise that can strengthen my discipline? Or does this have nothing to do with discipline and could be a result of slightly tilting or any other problem?

If the tight player has a strong opening range and then proceeds to bet 3 streets, I think we have to start looking at our hand to check if it's the nuts or not before calling. Simple really.
 
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willbec1

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It really is just player dependant. Your play could be Completely fine against a lot of players, and on the flip side, it could be horrendous against someone who has a very tight 3 barrel range.

Also, another thing to think about is how visisble your outs are. I personally like playing draws that may be less expected when you hit and that you can also rep other things. (E.x. Calling a str8 draw on a FD+Str8 draw board. if you hit str8 you can stil get alot of value,and if flush comes you have the opp to rep that).

Just some food for thought.
 
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cKcurius

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Did not read the posts but this is why poker is stupid. Making a play knowing the play is a bad play is plainly idiotic. Yet morons do this all day in poker. Once in 10 hands the moron gets lucky. Unfortunately in the long term, you always run into a moron making this idiotic play.
The OP "Ok say im in the big blind and a tight player min raises and i have j9s. I say to myself ok only play two pair or better. And then i flop top pair and just check and call trying to keep the pot small while he bets every street and sure enough he flips over pocket kings and i lose a decent size pot. I have done this mistake more than a few times and i think it has something to do with my self discipline. Has anybody ever had this problem? And how did you overcome it? Anyone have any exercise that can strengthen my discipline? Or does this have nothing to do with discipline and could be a result of slightly tilting or any other problem?"

very idiotic. Someone whos good will instead of calling a play like a donk hoping for luck, they three bet from the BB. This will throw off the raiser and they will either fold, or call scared. Bet again and they fold. Once ina while they will ship but the chances of that are rare. Now your picking up chips, improving your image, and possible getting the nit to tilt. The morons who choose to make plays that they know are bad is why poker is so 100% luck based makes it a waste of time unless u like pain
 
S3mper

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Did not read the posts but this is why poker is stupid. Making a play knowing the play is a bad play is plainly idiotic. Yet morons do this all day in poker. Once in 10 hands the moron gets lucky. Unfortunately in the long term, you always run into a moron making this idiotic play.
The OP "Ok say im in the big blind and a tight player min raises and i have j9s. I say to myself ok only play two pair or better. And then i flop top pair and just check and call trying to keep the pot small while he bets every street and sure enough he flips over pocket kings and i lose a decent size pot. I have done this mistake more than a few times and i think it has something to do with my self discipline. Has anybody ever had this problem? And how did you overcome it? Anyone have any exercise that can strengthen my discipline? Or does this have nothing to do with discipline and could be a result of slightly tilting or any other problem?"

very idiotic. Someone whos good will instead of calling a play like a donk hoping for luck, they three bet from the BB. This will throw off the raiser and they will either fold, or call scared. Bet again and they fold. Once ina while they will ship but the chances of that are rare. Now your picking up chips, improving your image, and possible getting the nit to tilt. The morons who choose to make plays that they know are bad is why poker is so 100% luck based makes it a waste of time unless u like pain

100% wrong
 
Beanfacekilla

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Any of you advocating calling a tight player's raise with J-9s from the blind are just wrong.

There are so many reasons this is wrong, but I will only name a few.

You are OOP.

J-9s is not a good hand at all.

Just because it is cheap to call, does not mean that is all you will have to invest. Calling with trouble hands like this only opens the door to tough decisions on future streets. When it is all over, and the river is here, and you lose chips (perhaps a lot), what will you think of the call with J-9s then?

Player is tight... you know you are behind, why risk chips in this spot? Stupid.

You are OUT OF POSITION. Did I say this yet? Do you people understand position is important in poker? Really, do you understand?

Poker is starting to turn into bingo these days. You folks come up with all kinds of excuses why a play like this is OK. You can stack villain if flop hits you, blah blah blah. You will lose in this spot waaaaaaaay more than you will win.

Villains don't always stack off their entire range post flop either, so implied odds is merely guesswork.



You should be playing only premiums from the blinds in cash. That is all there is to it. Obviously dynamics can play a role in this, but it is not +EV to make calls like this in general. Have some patience, and wait for better spots.


There is no reason at all to think this is a good call with J-9s. It is just a foolish waste of money.

Edit: if you do anything at all, 3-betting and take initiative is the best way. But even then, you still have J-9
 
S3mper

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I guess were folding every hand except AA or KK vs this villain then
 
JusSumguy

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Eventually, you will have made mistakes like this so many times that one day you just stop, and realize what you're doing. You will become more self disciplined in time.
Nice first post. Yep, that's how it works.

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