Call or Re-Raise on Drawing Hands

T

troubledman

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Total posts
18
Awards
1
Chips
1
What's up People.
I had this hand come up... Live 1/2 NL Cash Game.
I'm on the button holding 8c7c.
All folds to the Cut Off. The Cut Off raises to $12. I call as well as the Small Blind. Flop comes 9h 6c 3s. SB checks. The Cut Off bets $22. I re-raise to $44. SB folds, Cut Off calls. The Turn brings Qs. The Cut Off checks, I check behind him. The River brings a 2h. The Cut Off checks, I check. He wins with a (As9d) pair of 9s.

Was I wrong to reraise on the flop with the open ended straight? Should I have just called? Would this apply to flush draws as well?
Was I wrong to check on the turn and river?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
 
TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
dont min raise OTF?
 
PattyR

PattyR

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Total posts
7,111
Chips
0
you were wrong to call preflop with a 6x BB raise in front of you.
 
S

sryImPro

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Total posts
1,115
Chips
0
you were wrong to call preflop with a 6x BB raise in front of you.

i wouldn't call this preflop neither...it was a strong bet for your cards honestly :/
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
Semi-bluff the turn? This shows strength, so you have decent fold equity along with your outs.
 
appaz86

appaz86

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Total posts
295
Chips
0
Semi-bluff the turn? This shows strength, so you have decent fold equity along with your outs.

THIS

you gotta fire on the turn no matter what card comes... if it hits you thats just a bonus :)
 
tpb221

tpb221

Chasing Gutshots
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Total posts
2,095
Awards
1
Chips
0
you were wrong to call preflop with a 6x BB raise in front of you.
Not sure what the standard raise is were he plays but live a 10-12 raise is standard. With the cutoff raising and him being on the button it's not that bad of a call if it was a somewhat loose game/player.

Min raise is meh, would not have raised there.
 
L

LastTrader

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Total posts
15
Chips
0
he called your min raise on flop(instead of reraising). basically you can rule out him having a set, so the best hand he could probably has is A9(two pair is unlikely cuz his pf raise). So the turn card probably scared him, you should fire another barrel.
 
F

fkucdaw0rld

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Total posts
215
Chips
0
in a live 1/2 thats a standard raise preflop, i would definitely call there on the button...its not online where 3xBB is the standard raise, so ignore the ppl questioning the size of the call....you didnt HAVE to raise the flop-bet, but since u did, you HAVE to bet when he checks the turn....if he just calls you and u still miss on the river, then it depends on how much u want to win the pot, cuz then you have to bet the river as well...if ur not willing to fire those bullets then you're just asking for trouble with the raise on the flop
 
C

ClubArrow77

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Total posts
317
Chips
0
I think you should have been more aggressive in this hand. Although villain raised from the CO, his range is still going to be tighter than ours because he still has 3 players left to act with one in position. Since we connect well on the flop, I would reraise CO's raise on the flop to try to take the pot down right there. In this case, I would raise 2.5 to 3x villain's raise to represent a strong hand and give more fold equity.
The turn card is scary for the villain since we could have just added a flush draw to our hand and even if Queens are in his range, villain did not bet which I would take to mean that he probably did not hit. I would raise the turn about half the pot to try to take it down again. If villain check-raises, I would fold since villain probably then has two pair or is slowplaying a set which means we only have a 16% chance of hitting the card that will give us the nut straight. If villain calls and we miss, I would probably check fold here. I guess we could try to give a third barrel but if villain calls two pretty significant barrels, I dont think we can bluff him off the pot although we could try to represent the 54 here. Not sure about the river, any thoughts?
 
G

Gunner57

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Total posts
211
Chips
0
What's up People.
I had this hand come up... Live 1/2 NL Cash Game.
I'm on the button holding 8c7c.
All folds to the Cut Off. The Cut Off raises to $12. I call as well as the Small Blind. Flop comes 9h 6c 3s. SB checks. The Cut Off bets $22. I re-raise to $44. SB folds, Cut Off calls. The Turn brings Qs. The Cut Off checks, I check behind him. The River brings a 2h. The Cut Off checks, I check. He wins with a (As9d) pair of 9s.
FYI:
It is difficult to break this hand down too much as more info would be helpfull such as what type of players villans are, chip stacks, table images ect. Without that type of info most of the advise is situational with each commenter assuming something different about your villan and your situation.

Was I wrong to reraise on the flop with the open ended straight?
You are on a semi bluff so if you raise make it one that will be more difficult for him to call. Min raise is too easy for him to call with just about anything. You want a fold as you do not have a made hand yet..
Should I have just called? If you are not ready to put a bigger raise on the flop and/or bet turn no matter what card shows then yes. Call is barely ok here as you are only about 33% to win if he has a pair of 9's or better. Also with call you keep pot small and manageable as possible. Depending on your villan, draw, chips, and table image should determine if you want to build a pot with a draw or not. Would this apply to flush draws as well? Every situation is different depending on the draw, your villan, your table image, chips, ect.... Best to read and post on Hand Analysis section. Also, I recomned not showing outcome as this will create bias in the answers you get.
Was I wrong to check on the turn and river? If your goal was to win this pot yes it was wrong to check the turn. If you wanted to see a cheap showdown then no.
There was no way you were going to win the pot without either catching a river card or putting a bet on the turn. After checking the turn, not making your hand, and a 2 coming up on the river, I would have to say checking was ok on river. The only consolation prize is you did not have to show :)
IMO you should only play 87 suited preflop with that size raise as a change of pace hand, in position, against villans that you know are loose and will pay you off if you hit your str8 or flush. Otherwise fold pre-flop and pick a better hand.
Thanks in advance for the advice.


Good Luck!
 
Last edited:
Ballack

Ballack

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Total posts
81
Chips
0
I think a small raise is a good choice, but never push all-in! thats my advice, i experienced it too many times ;-(
 
T

troubledman

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Total posts
18
Awards
1
Chips
1
Hey ClubArrow77...
Thanks for the advice and help. I dude I was playing against is a newbie to poker. So I don't think he is able to see or what's developing and make a good decision. Had this been a different player I'm not sure if I would have won the hand. I agree with you that my min raise on the flop was bad. I now agree that firing a barrel on the turn would have been a good move as well. A third shot on the river is questionable imo. In this situation my opponent wouldn't have laid down cause he really doesn't know the game just yet. With a more experienced player I think checking and saving some money was best.
 
B

BubbleGumTurbo

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2011
Total posts
20
Awards
1
Chips
0
I agree with Cafeman31, you should have semi-bluffed on the turn with a serious bet, but not bigger than the size of the pot.
 
R

RamdeeBen

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Total posts
7,745
Chips
0
What's up People.
I had this hand come up... Live 1/2 NL Cash Game.
I'm on the button holding 8c7c.
All folds to the Cut Off. The Cut Off raises to $12. I call as well as the Small Blind. Flop comes 9h 6c 3s. SB checks. The Cut Off bets $22. I re-raise to $44. SB folds, Cut Off calls. The Turn brings Qs. The Cut Off checks, I check behind him. The River brings a 2h. The Cut Off checks, I check. He wins with a (As9d) pair of 9s.

Was I wrong to reraise on the flop with the open ended straight? Should I have just called? Would this apply to flush draws as well?
Was I wrong to check on the turn and river?
Thanks in advance for the advice.

You wasn't wrong to raise the flop, you have outs and can also get away if he shoves. He just flatted, this showed so much weakness and now you have position..He then checks the turn, this is so obvious his hand isn't much now, if anything (of course he know he had a nine) I most definitely would of bet the turn and I think he would of been folding. Again I think personally it was a mistake not to bet the turn/river, you have outs on the flop and river and I'd be betting against this guy he seems quite weak with some outs left for you.

You played it well to re-raise him as most will c-bet most of the time anyway and to then just check down wasn't ideal. Also if you told us how much we both had behind you would help, as if he was short then he would always be calling with his A,9, if you and him are deep and you're aggressive I would expect him to fold.

You must of sensed some weakness when someone is checking down, you have to take a pop even on the river if needs be. It's so easy for someone with that hand to get away from as suited connectors/connectors unsuited and middle pairs often will flat in position so chances are when you re-raised him and he flatted he thought he might of been behind already so decide to check/fold if needed on the turn/river but also had "some" outs and still held top pair and your min raise was good enough to call for him.

I still think his line would of been check/fold.
 
Last edited:
flushedK

flushedK

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Total posts
16
Chips
0
I would have done exactly as you ,but i would have fired another bullet on the turn:D
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top