C-Betting AK on flop when you miss: Is this a leak?

Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Say you 3bet and he calls..

U miss and u cbet... is this a leak? cbetting 3bet pot pre.
 
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SwiftHax

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It depends, if I decide to go that way, I will do it when I have a few outs to improve, otherwise I will just fold the hand.
 
IPlay

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It depends, if I decide to go that way, I will do it when I have a few outs to improve, otherwise I will just fold the hand.

It is AK, you are always going to flop overs to the board... Hence you will usually have outs on the flop.

CB'ing with AK is not a leak just make sure not you are CB'ing on the wrong boards and not into multiple opponents or calling stations.
 
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Akorps

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AK is a pretty good hand to get all-in with before the flop. You are only a big dog against AA and KK, and there are only half as many of those out there as there usually are, so if your stack is short enough might as well go all-in :)

Very difficult hand to play post-flop, on the other hand :)
 
John A

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I think you're good enough to know that question is way too vague to give a quality answer to. I'll put a couple of tips though.

1) The lower your opponents fold to 3-bet is, then the wider their range will be = the more often they will whiff the flop, so you'll be c-betting for value.
2) If you're in position, pretty much c-bet near 100%. OOP the board texture and your opponent will be key in if you give up or not. If they are aggressive, or have a lot of different stats that indicate they don't like to fold, then it's best to let it go unless you have good stack sizes to double and push your opponent off their weak range.
 
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bozichka05

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You want answer in general. In poker you can't play one hand against every type of player in one way.
 
suby_rafael

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I don't think thats a leak. To 3 bet pre flop with AK and continuing on the flop is a standard play. As very often you will miss the flop so you have to keep representing strength, you might even think of double or triple barreling of he doesn't fold to one bullet or you can slow down on the turn if you think your opponent might call you on later streets as well. So figuring out the best play is difficult to say so find the optimal move depending on the situation that is the way your opponent plays and the chipstacks of you and your opponent
 
U

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If you have a single opponent cbetting should be pretty standard. Like John A said, in position you cbet pretty much 100% of the time.

OOP you need to look at that board. What kinds of hands is this villain likely to be calling with. If the board is coordinated (4h7h8s) then you probably just check there. The range of hands that someone could be playing in position on you is likely to have smacked that board hard, so a cbet is likely wasted. However is the board is not coordinated (Jh6s2d) then you can cbet that out of position pretty successfully. There is a likely over card to most pocket pairs, not real draws on the board, and if he hit a pair of 6's (like an A6 hand) he still is likely to fold there due to the over cards and weak hand strength.

However, all that said - if you are looking for a simple answer, its probably fine to cbet a missed flop with AK almost all the time. You can do better than that, but as a general rule its probably fine.
 
Aces2w1n

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I think you're good enough to know that question is way too vague to give a quality answer to. I'll put a couple of tips though.

1) The lower your opponents fold to 3-bet is, then the wider their range will be = the more often they will whiff the flop, so you'll be c-betting for value.
2) If you're in position, pretty much c-bet near 100%. OOP the board texture and your opponent will be key in if you give up or not. If they are aggressive, or have a lot of different stats that indicate they don't like to fold, then it's best to let it go unless you have good stack sizes to double and push your opponent off their weak range.


Thanks for your response it's exactly what I needed. You can know a lot of things but for some reason a few different things slip in my games occassionaly hence why I like to readup on here a lot.

I think ive been pushing too hard OOP with AKo with wet boards though I've been concentrating on it a while back I think I need to ease up again and make sure I'm not running into these nightmareish hands.
 
Aces2w1n

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AK is a pretty good hand to get all-in with before the flop. You are only a big dog against AA and KK, and there are only half as many of those out there as there usually are, so if your stack is short enough might as well go all-in :)

Very difficult hand to play post-flop, on the other hand :)


Well since everytime I got yelled/drilled about being short stack :) I'm always max buy-in or + :) so I'm never small stack at the table.
 
Aces2w1n

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If you have a single opponent cbetting should be pretty standard. Like John A said, in position you cbet pretty much 100% of the time.

OOP you need to look at that board. What kinds of hands is this villain likely to be calling with. If the board is coordinated (4h7h8s) then you probably just check there. The range of hands that someone could be playing in position on you is likely to have smacked that board hard, so a cbet is likely wasted. However is the board is not coordinated (Jh6s2d) then you can cbet that out of position pretty successfully. There is a likely over card to most pocket pairs, not real draws on the board, and if he hit a pair of 6's (like an A6 hand) he still is likely to fold there due to the over cards and weak hand strength.

However, all that said - if you are looking for a simple answer, its probably fine to cbet a missed flop with AK almost all the time. You can do better than that, but as a general rule its probably fine.


Hmm yeah I find especially OOP cbetting a dry board if I get re-raised or even IP check raised they usually have a set or 2pair.

Occassionaly ive seen someone with top pair doing this move which is a nice move for them if they put me on AK but I guess I let them go and just remember they will put me on AK when I have a set myself or hit the board hard and get paid back with interest hopefully.


Yes I need to check more I think when theres 2+ opponents OOP on wet boards, I think theres too much of a high chance I'm behind or im thinking just to cbet and if I'm called unless the turn doesn't bring something I just giveup.
 
shanest

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Great pointers by John A. I try not to play big pots with it out of position against good players
 
Karozi615

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AK is a strong hand but it needs to be played with caution. It's really situational and dependent on a number of variables, the most important being stack sizes. If your in the 10-25 BB range you should be comfortable stacking off with AK, but this is generally applied to tournament play



AK is a fine hand to 3bet with and in some circumstances 4bet. Depending on the opponent you can continue on the flop, fire two streets, or three barrel - this ties back into stack sizes.
I recommended betting the flop and then check folding the turn against a stickier player.
The more you play with AK the better off you'll be. However, one of the biggest mistakes new players make is they get attached to AK and float multiple streets with no actual plan, please make sure you do not do this as you will burn money.
 
H

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AK suited is a good hand to have. One pro rates it in his top 5. Once I asked what was better, AK suited or pocket aces, after all isn't the game about attaining the best possible hand?

Well pre-flop AA is the best, but AAAA doesn't beat a royal, so the AK suited is valuable as the potentially best hand as long as the board welcomes her majesty along with the jack of trades and a 10.

I've seen some all in pre flop antics with 5-5, 8-8, J-J, suited Q-J, and have had an A-K win the whole dang sha bang on the river. The guy with the JJ had his hopes up, but now doubt that king stomped those jackz, showing off the potential of the super stack push potential with A-K.
 
teepack

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It's not a bad play, but I'm not sure it is a strong long-term play. One factor would be the number of players in the hand. If 3 people called your 3Bet, then I'm checking every day and hoping to get a free look at the turn. It looks like from your original post, it's just you and one other player, so then I might do another 3bet just to continue to present strength, especially if I am the first to act.
 
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It looks like from your original post, it's just you and one other player, so then I might do another 3bet just to continue to present strength, especially if I am the first to act.

Are there any qualifiers to that?

And are you saying that on the flop you will bet and then re-raise so you can represent strength?

That seems like a bad plan.
 
Aces2w1n

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Sounds like your trapping yourself.

I was more asking about 3betting in a multiway pot because the pot size is already so huge on the flop... Betting the pot or 3/4 it's almost putting me as pot committed. I guess the turn I either fold or shove. If that's the case I'm pot committed. Unless ofc theres danger cards out there like flush has arrived or straights or both at the sametime.
 
suby_rafael

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This is a standard play and not a leak until that point ... leaks might be after this move depending on how you play after the first c-bet. If you meet resistance it is best to slow down and not advisable to keep firing. However if you catch your card you must try and extract some value. Alternatively if you sense weakness a bet on the river to bluff and take the pot is also good but can be risky.
 
Aces2w1n

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Yeah I've adapted to be more trickier in position because I get caught with my pants down a lot more often OOP :).

And it's easier how fast ppl bet/take their time some ppl have timing tells as well..

Always feels tricky when ppl lead out OOP when you've missed with 2 overs tho. Never been a reraiser with nothing on the flop unless I have monster draws.
 
Arjonius

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It's not either/or. It's a leak when you do it in inappropriate situations.
 
U

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And it's easier how fast ppl bet/take their time some ppl have timing tells as well..

I think time tells are impossible to use.

You know that they are taking time to make their action, but you don't know why.

Are they playing at 6 tables and were distracted for a moment?
Did their kid come up and ask them a question?
Did they spill their drink and are desperately trying to sop it up?
Are they trying to decide what action to take?

The reason it is not a "tell" is that you cannot tie the action to the reasoning behind the action.

I know for me I am often late to act on tables because I am cycling through them and get to one action with a few seconds left due to working through a lot of stuff.

I wouldn't worry to much about timing tells.
 
Aces2w1n

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I think time tells are impossible to use.

You know that they are taking time to make their action, but you don't know why.

Are they playing at 6 tables and were distracted for a moment?
Did their kid come up and ask them a question?
Did they spill their drink and are desperately trying to sop it up?
Are they trying to decide what action to take?

The reason it is not a "tell" is that you cannot tie the action to the reasoning behind the action.

I know for me I am often late to act on tables because I am cycling through them and get to one action with a few seconds left due to working through a lot of stuff.

I wouldn't worry to much about timing tells.


Okay I agree with that. Thanks :)
 
Arjonius

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I think time tells are impossible to use.
I wouldn't go quite that far. Timing tells aren't tremendously helpful, but they're also no completely useless.

There are some players who tend to act more rapidly or slowly in certain types of situations. It takes history to know what those situations are though. This doesn't eliminate or even reduce the possibility that the person is taking time to make a real decision. However, it can sometimes help your decision-making to know that his range also includes certain types of hands where he pretends to have a tough decision.
 
juanmapoker1

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cash game 3bet
in tournaments all in most of the time
 
rodrigoudf

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Most times it does cbet unless it gets nuts on the flop then you can do something different
 
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