c bet here?

A

Akhanar

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Ok, I was thinking about this situation:

I had JJ in mp and raise 3x.

2 callers in late position.

Flop A37r

Do I c bet here?

I mean I am either way behind or way ahead here all the time, right? I'm not betting to get calls from worse hands, no worse hands (smaller pp's?) would call, I don't think. And no better hands (33, 77, Ax where x is likely fairly large) are going to fold.

But it doesn't seem like check-calling here is the right move either since I could lose a lot of money bluff catching.
What do you think?
 
archangelzx

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I don't like c betting with 2+ oppenents not sure if its good to cbet here, only getting called by better. id check fold the flop or raise turn if checked to you.
 
N

NeverWinsRaces

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C BET. a check opens up a spot to bluff for them in late position. To me a c bet is repping the ace. you know you will get called by any ace. So i think c bet and evaluate turn if you are called. best case you take it down on the flop.
 
fletchdad

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Cbet. So many hands are gonna call you pre that you still beat.. If you check, say a KQ checks behind then a K or Q turns. You bet, get called, you check get bet into..... You have any better idea where you are at in this hand??? If you cbet and take it down, fine. If you cbet and get called, it depends on your opponent and what comes on the turn. If you get raised, then it could be an easy fold, but would be nice to have any info on your opponents.

Please post HH, with stakes, and game info FR, 6max?? as well as any info you have on the callers. It will be hard to make any kind of real comments with the info above, except to say, you were the preflop aggressor and are facing 2 callers, you need to keep your aggression up and you hand is still fine.
 
WVHillbilly

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I fail to see any reason to bet.

Assuming unknown villains, I check.
If the action behind me goes bet/call, I fold flop.
If it goes ch/bet, I call.
 
fletchdad

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WVHillbilly said:
I fail to see any reason to bet.

Assuming unknown villains, I check.
If the action behind me goes bet/call, I fold flop.
If it goes ch/bet, I call.
Click to expand...


OK, we are dealing with unknowns here, and I guess that makes the difference.

In the calling range of UK (x2), I am putting Ax for sure, but a LOT of non A hands. Since we have the initiative here, and their range can include so many hands we beat, why would you advocate checking here? We leave our self open to a check/bet, which you say call, but then OTT we are still in the dark, especially if the check calls as well. If the turn comes K or Q, isnt this in his c betting range/ his calling the c bet range if we check?

Dont we take the pot enough, if a raise comes we have a pretty easy fold, and if he calls, well, hmm that suks.... but dont we clear his/their ranges and mainly end the hand with a c bet?


Of course, I still need to sharpen my tools so, I may be missing something here.
 
WVHillbilly

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fletchdad said:
OK, we are dealing with unknowns here, and I guess that makes the difference.

In the calling range of UK (x2), I am putting Ax for sure, but a LOT of non A hands. Since we have the initiative here, and their range can include so many hands we beat, why would you advocate checking here? We leave our self open to a check/bet, which you say call, but then OTT we are still in the dark, especially if the check calls as well. If the turn comes K or Q, isnt this in his c betting range/ his calling the c bet range if we check?

Dont we take the pot enough, if a raise comes we have a pretty easy fold, and if he calls, well, hmm that suks.... but dont we clear his/their ranges and mainly end the hand with a c bet?

Of course, I still need to sharpen my tools so, I may be missing something here.
Click to expand...
Ending the hand and making our decisions easy are not reasons to bet.
We bet to make better hands fold (not happening here) or get worse hands to call (will happen in this situation on occasion but probably not often enough to justify betting).

If we ch/call the guy in position's bet on the flop and the 3rd guy comes along we're check folding any turn card that doesn't give us a set. Even if the 3rd guy doesn't come along we're check folding most turns anyway. The general micro stakes player is not going to bet flop and turn without TP (hell a vast majority of them will check the turn with an Ace).

Look at it this way, we're investing the same money by ch/calling as we are if we cbet. When we cbet we rarely are getting called by worse. If we check we can expect worse to bet probably more often that it calls a cbet. If you bet and get called you're likely check folding the turn. If you ch/call the flop you're planning to ch/fold the turn. I really fail to see any reason to bet the flop.
 
fletchdad

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WVHillbilly said:
Ending the hand and making our decisions easy are not reasons to bet.
We bet to make better hands fold (not happening here) or get worse hands to call (will happen in this situation on occasion but probably not often enough to justify betting).

If we ch/call the guy in position's bet on the flop and the 3rd guy comes along we're check folding any turn card that doesn't give us a set. Even if the 3rd guy doesn't come along we're check folding most turns anyway. The general micro stakes player is not going to bet flop and turn without TP (hell a vast majority of them will check the turn with an Ace).

Look at it this way, we're investing the same money by ch/calling as we are if we cbet. When we cbet we rarely are getting called by worse. If we check we can expect worse to bet probably more often that it calls a cbet. If you bet and get called you're likely check folding the turn. If you ch/call the flop you're planning to ch/fold the turn. I really fail to see any reason to bet the flop.
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks for explaining.
 
JusSumguy

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If you checked that A to me... I'm gonna claim it.

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JusSumguy

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WVHillbilly said:
Cool. You gonna claim it again on the turn?
Click to expand...

That's usually my line. If I tell a story, it's gotta be believable. Sometimes it costs me. But as nitty as I play, it's not a hard story to believe.

Not being a math player, I'm sure it's all wrong. But I've learned that a true story will fire the river too. Especially if I'm getting calls. It's also why I take notes profusely. A dog walker is my nemesis. That's when I get sacked. From them, a call is essentially a raise.

Yeah, it's a tightrope. But given the right scenario (which is what I look for) I'm claiming that A right to the river.

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