Busted out vs. wierd hand Final Table - NEED Advice

Live Poker $25 buy-in X52 total people

Final Table 4 players left

Blinds 8000/16000

UTG (70K) - Folds
D - Pushes all-in (80K in chips)
SB - Me - Call (37K in chips)
BB (12K left) - Folds

D - Turns KhJd
Me - 66

Now I thought he looked weak with the over bet/steal so I figured worst case it's a race.

Flop 10 7 10
Turn 2
River 7

My 2 pair was FUBAR with the boards 2 pair and his K high.

I would like some feed back on this move. I felt I had to win a race and that due to the blinds and my stack getting low I had to call. It took me longer than I've ever delayed before calling. My first thought of his move was a basic steal and he got caught in a race and won (stupid 7 on the river).

- Now is his move a standard move?
- Would you make this move or would you just raise maybe 3XBB or 4XBB
and see a flop first?
- I personally would have done that (then folded on the flop cause I didn't
hit anything vs. risking almost half my stack on a steal attempt.
- Please give me some advice here... Did I make the right move there?

PS - Some backround history - The guy really isn't that good of a player IMO and he played about 80% of the hands on the final table. Showing some really bad hands that sucked out and won. The first hand of the final table he raised UTG 7XBB he was reraised all-in for another 10K in chips and called with J5offsuit (and won). He was def. the villain at the table and bullied a lot of pots.

i think i would have called there.
a lot of times it depends on the players at the table and position.

i think you made a good call.

BrentD22 said:

Blinds 8000/16000

UTG (70K) - Folds
D - Pushes all-in (80K in chips)
SB - Me - Call (37K in chips)
BB (12K left) - Folds

- Now is his move a standard move?
- Would you make this move or would you just raise maybe 3XBB or 4XBB
and see a flop first?

Click to expand...

Standard move yes.
Raising 3x or 4x BB maybe if you had that many chips. If the blinds are 8k/16k and you only have 37k then even all in isn't even 2.5x BB. Did you enter the limits wrong here?

No the limits are correct. I didn't push all-in first I called the all in on the SB vs. the button.

He did that move several times in a row when he was the on the button stealing the blinds all but once when he was called by the BB (low stack) and he showed J5o. So my 1st thought was he doesn't really want a call by pushing all in. All he had to do was bet 2.5XBB and I was all in anyway. Instead of doing that his moved looked weak and was begging for no one to call.

good call id say.... I wouldve done the same. With ure 6's it's goint to be a race most of the time and with ure stack size i think it would be worth a gamble there if u want a chance to win it. You have to win races to win big and unfortunatly u got unlucky... better luck next time!

Well in that case with even the big stack at the table being only 5x bb I would be pushing with any decent hand so, yes the original push makes sense. Betting 37k would have been the same as pushing all in, no difference IMO since the UTG player folded.
You made the call as you had to, bad luck though this time. And to be honest you are probably right in that he didn't want anyone to call but with 66 you are almost never in a dominating situation so even if he had a similar hand to the one were he bluffed you will most likely be against at least two overs.
I guess my point here is with the blinds being so large compared to stack size all bets are going to look the same, it is essentially all in or fold. Whether you put in 100% of your chips or 50% you have already committed yourself to the pot.

- Now is his move a standard move?
- Would you make this move or would you just raise maybe 3XBB or 4XBB
and see a flop first?
- I personally would have done that (then folded on the flop cause I didn't
hit anything vs. risking almost half my stack on a steal attempt.
- Please give me some advice here... Did I make the right move there?

Click to expand...

- yes
- no because 3bbs is over half his stack.
- you'd fold having put 1/2 to 3/4 of your stack in preflop with 2 overs to a paired flop? really? umm, okay. edit: umm also this is all pretty irrelevant seeing as yours and BBs stacks are <3BBs anyway
- the call is fine

really in poker situations arise where two people play their hands fine and someone has to lose. villain's shove is standard, your call is standard, someone had to lose and there's zero chance you're making this thread if you had won the race so don't be results oriented.

Good call.

You just got counterfeited, that's all. It happens. In time, it will even out. Just stay consistent.


---

hand played itself

Dorkus Malorkus said:

really in poker situations arise where two people play their hands fine and someone has to lose. villain's shove is standard, your call is standard, someone had to lose and there's zero chance you're making this thread if you had won the race so don't be results oriented.

Click to expand...

vanquish said:

hand played itself

Click to expand...

yea and yea

Depending on the particular style that player had been showing I would have to agree and make that call based on the fact that he had been playing 80% of his hands and the overbet exhibited factors of a steal type bet. However you need to know that worst case scenario your not in a race your most likely completely dominiated with a hands 77-1010 and best case either a 70$ favorite against Ax or even 55% in a race situation.

actually best case scenario is 80% favorite against 22-55, all of which he should and probably would be pushing at this point

combuboom said:

actually best case scenario is 80% favorite against 22-55, all of which he should and probably would be pushing at this point

Click to expand...

NO best case is obv 92% against 62o with dominated suit

best case scenario is villain has two blank cards

combuboom said:

best case scenario is villain has two blank cards

Click to expand...

no, cause then he'll just draw whatever he wants on them.
best case then would be that he draws 6 and 2 with dominated suit

Dorkus Malorkus said:

- yes
- no because 3bbs is over half his stack.
- you'd fold having put 1/2 to 3/4 of your stack in preflop with 2 overs to a paired flop? really? umm, okay. edit: umm also this is all pretty irrelevant seeing as yours and BBs stacks are <3BBs anyway
- the call is fine

really in poker situations arise where two people play their hands fine and someone has to lose. villain's shove is standard, your call is standard, someone had to lose and there's zero chance you're making this thread if you had won the race so don't be results oriented.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the part about result oriented. I try and keep telling myself that I made the correct call and thats all I can do. Even 72o could have drawn a 7 vs. my 66's and won. So I did the correct thing and you are correct someone had to win.

The bigger reason why I asked was the guy with KJo thinks I was the best player in the tournament (I thought maybe 3rd best) and he said he was surprised at my call. I said I did the right thing and he disagreed. I guess it was the wrong thing in his mind only cause I lost. Oh well...

The blinds have to be typed in 10x wrong the bb had 12K and folded 8K/16K its 800/1600 which totally changes analysis

D'wilius said:

The blinds have to be typed in 10x wrong the bb had 12K and folded 8K/16K its 800/1600 which totally changes analysis

Click to expand...

no, there's no way stacks were that deep in some live $25 buy in tourney, and the guy isn't open shoving 50 BBs or something

BB coulda easily had 12k after posting and folded to try and move up the pay ladder if other guy got knocked out

ok thats why its 12k LEFT gotcha, wow those are some blinds, there's no debating the play then

unless only 3 payed but i didn't even think about how many bb that would give the KJ

but why is the original poster talking about raising 3-4bb when the bigstack has 5bb i'm still confused

oh brents 2nd post said he has 2.5bb, I'll stop now sorry haha

correct

combuboom said:

no, there's no way stacks were that deep in some live $25 buy in tourney, and the guy isn't open shoving 50 BBs or something

BB coulda easily had 12k after posting and folded to try and move up the pay ladder if other guy got knocked out

Click to expand...

You are exactly correct. After I busted out I said (I knew everyone playing in the tournament almost). I said Bob congrates on folding to a higher pay out (I play to win) might be why I usually bubble out or at least only cash on the lower end of big tournaments or win nothing in between.

Plus by this point the final table (that started with 10 people) lasted 2:40 mins (4 people left when I busted). It went on for another 1:45mins before HU (the guy with the really low stack stuck around for a while) HU only lasted 2 mins from what I was told (I left sad after I lost). The earlier part of the tournament went pretty slowly as well. Blinds moved up every 20mins. so they where very high by the time it got to 4 people. I also think I played WAY too tight leading up to that point.

When I was on the button I knew the guy at the SB position was going to push with any PP not too worried about him cause he was so small stack, but the BB when I was on the button pushed all in to any of my earlier raises and said "I will go all-in every time you raise on the button and if you go all in I will call with anything". He said he was OK with finishing ITM and the tournament lasted way too long and was late getting somewhere. So I had a hard time stealing chips at any time.

D'wilius said:

but why is the original poster talking about raising 3-4bb when the bigstack has 5bb i'm still confused

Click to expand...

Good question - I guess what I should have said was - I thought that just saying all-in was lazy vs. looking at how small my stack was compared to the blinds. I believed him saying all-in looked weak and a raise would have accomplished the same thing. I guess it's not really a big deal, but I thought he would have maybe only raised 2XBB if he really had a great hand hoping I'd go all-in and he could call. The all-in let's hope he folds move seemed weak and I thought my 66 was good at that point. Either way I don't really think it was too important and really didn't make a big difference if he said all in or just raised, but it just looked like a sign of a weak to marginal hand. KJo IMO is a marginal hand (although def. a hand he could push with on the button with the blinds so big).

Oh and the reason I named my thread title wierd hand is because the villian that was playing ubber aggressive the whole final table thought me calling with pp6's was bad. Thats the wierd part. I persnally thought it was a good call and I was on the better half of a coin flip.

Agreed that pushing can look weak in certain situations but because of that i push with a big hand when any raise would have same effect. Hard to believe anyone was faulting you for playing any pair at 4plyr table with 14bb COMBINED. Good to know they'll be folding sixes when its you pushing this situation next time!