BTN/CO stealing in 6max

So BTN and CO ranges should be considerably wider than MP UTG etc? Yeah, I thought so too. So ive tried to open up considerably from BTN and CO and it just doesn't seem worth it at all.

So many players at low stakes don't respect PFR or position and will call with ATC to see a flop. Even decent/bad regs with 20 VPIP or less are just absolute fish when it comes to defending their blinds.

You also end up getting yourself involved with trash hands losing a load of medium pots because of domination when you've opened with K9s in the CO and KJo has called you from the BB.

Usually ill open with slightly wider than I would from MP, not with trash like 108s. But the last few sessions ive widened my range of CO and BTN further to what has been advised by many people and the results have been disastrous.

How wide do you open from CO/BTN?

as a rule of thumb the blinds never believe the button and the button never believes the blinds.

thatgreekdude said:

as a rule of thumb the blinds never believe the button and the button never believes the blinds.

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So with that being said... BET strong with the nuts because they won't believe you.

Also flops like 662 don't seem to get believers either ehhe

Trying to steal more often isn't like adding a new element to your game and assuming nothing else should change. For instance, if you try to steal more against players who will call with ATC, you have to be prepared to adjust your post-flop play to take into account that they're calling pre- with ATC.

Post some hands? I see that you have also started a thread on calling from the blinds, post some tough spots you are facing in these blind vs button/co situations.

You need to take a more cautious approach post flop because you will be playing a lot of marginal hands and be in a lot of marginal spots most of the time in blind versus button situations and if they don't 3b enough, you will be often dominated but that is fine since you get to play your dominated/weaker hands with a higher SPR which is good for you.

So far I find that most microstakes players have huge leaks in their blind vs blind and/or blind vs btn/co play. Most don't call enough or call too much. Most don't 3bet enough or 3bet too much.
Exploit their tendencies, 4bet bluff them, call their 3bets and outplay them time to time, only play premiums/set mine against weak players who have tight 3b range.

How wide you open the BN/CO really depends on how good the BN and the blinds are and how often they fold to steal.
In some situations when the blinds fold way too much, you can open ATC from the BN profitably even if you give up every time they call.
When opening from CO you have to consider whether the BN will call along and/or 3b you light. If there is a tough player on the BN its ok to open a little tighter. Sometimes you see nitty BN's and you can open CO as though you have the BN.

If thats the case, then wait for premium hands and do it again, but this time,raise it bigger.

They will now believe you if theyll see your hand at showdown.

Lets slow down for a minute and think about why we are stealing?

Well, stealing is instantly profitable when players are folding fairly tightly. If you are on the button, everyone has folded to you, then betting will often cause the blinds to fold. You should just be picking up free money. So simply stealing needs to work around 66% of the time to be purely profitable. That means if someone is calling as slightly less often than 34% of the time you will make money just right there.

That means a steal doesn't need to work all the time. IT also means that you DON'T HAVE TO PUT MORE MONEY IN THE POT IF A STEAL FAILS.

If you are playing at the micro's, then you should only really need to cbet a steal attempt when it is for value.

This is what I will normally try, I steal often when I can. If they call, I try and cbet (when the board is appropriate to do so). If they call again, I start to make some notes. If someone is not going to fold 66% of the time, then I will start to steal much more tightly and I am doing it for value.

Keep in mind, my value range against this guys is still pretty wide. Because he is calling with around 40% of his holdings when he is OOP, I can bet for value more easily. I can raise with any A, any K, all PP's, any two broadways, and probably like T9s or so. You still open fairly wide, and are happy if you take it down, but the reason is because he is playing a weak range out of position to you.

The reason stealing works, no matter what your opponent does, is that you have a positional edge. If they don't fold you add in a card edge, and they lose because they are bad at poker and you can just play ABC and win against dummies.

But you still are playing the hand in position with the betting lead, and so a c bet should take it down a decent percentage of the time, well at least enough to make it profitable. In lower stakes it may be different because of how sticky they are on streets, and so you have to adjust. This is why I hate lower stakes, general game theory hardly is valid IMO and I just find it hard to make a huge profit even with an edge over the field

babydrago9 said:

But you still are playing the hand in position with the betting lead, and so a c bet should take it down a decent percentage of the time, well at least enough to make it profitable. In lower stakes it may be different because of how sticky they are on streets, and so you have to adjust. This is why I hate lower stakes, general game theory hardly is valid IMO and I just find it hard to make a huge profit even with an edge over the field

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So you are going to make a huge profit playing people who have studied the game more? Really?

Thinker_145 said:

So you are going to make a huge profit playing people who have studied the game more? Really?

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I know what he means. A lot of plays that will work higher up, will straight up fail at the micros. I find particularly when bad villains hold TPTK or an overpair, they are basically never folding, unless the board is extremely wet and you shove all in. Higher up you can force people off stronger hands more easily, when bluffing in the correct spots.

Im still yet to find the "optimal play style" (if you can call it that), for the micros. I really believe tight is an overrated strategy. How can it be best when its the most popular way of playing? And you're told to play the opposite to what the table is playing? Currently running at 29/23/3, so far so good.

akaRobbo said:

Im still yet to find the "optimal play style" (if you can call it that), for the micros. I really believe tight is an overrated strategy. How can it be best when its the most popular way of playing? And you're told to play the opposite to what the table is playing? Currently running at 29/23/3, so far so good.

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There is no style that's optimal across the board. Tables and opponents vary, plus different players have different goals, relative ability, strengths and weaknesses, levels of risk and/or variance tolerance, etc.

You feel tight isn't the best fit for you? Fine. But that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.

That is why you should try to steal with marginal hands like Q2/82/93 this makes your decisions easier to a 3bet, and postflop IP when called.