Bovada 25NL defending very narrowly against 3-bets

I know that we should be defending a good % of the time against 3-betting so we can't be exploited, but I've noticed on Bovada 25NL (especially cash games), they have incredibly low 3-bet %'s. I three-bet around 7-8% (JJ/KQo/AJs+ in position against MP/CO, a little tighter against UTG), and 3-bet a depolarized range from the blinds (1010/KJs+) against button steals. I have tried 3-betting more, especially in position, but I have found that it's unprofitable because there's not as much fold equity as you would expect. And playing with Q high or 99/1010 in a 3-bet pot is pretty marginal. Probably unprofitable if I remember correctly. And fish cold call pretty wide, with junk occasionally, from the blinds. Have seen junk like A4 suited, A2 suited, AJo, 55, 66, 44, 33.

The Bovada players (mostly fish) have a very wide 3-bet calling range but a very narrow 3-bet range. I've even used Hold Em Manager 2, and they have something like 2-5% 3-bet ranges. I'll even see players who don't 3-bet JJ/QQ/KK/AK. So is it alright (yes, it is exploitative, but I find exploitative play very profitable at the micros) to only flat JJ/AKo+ in position and QQ/AKo+ OOP? (If I'm the original raiser I 4-bet AK most of the time, since it blocks all the nutted hands AA/KK and fold to a 5-bet shove) Almost nobody 5-bet shoves on 25NL Bovada without AA/KK. The occasional AK might, but that's not very often. I've actually made quite a bit of money 5-bet shoving KK/AA into AK. Everytime I've tried flatting a little wider OTB because the blinds should theoretically be 3-betting a wider range against the button (1010, AQo, AQs, AJs), they always show me a nutted range (AK for TPTK, JJ, QQ, KK, AA). Very occasionally will I see a depolarized range (only once have I seen AJo and 99, everything else was pure value).

I've seen this same behavior at the 25NL level on Bovada. Most of the player pool is apt to call a 3bet with a fairly wide range, but reluctant to make a 3bet.

My numbers show about 40-60% likelihood to flat a 3bet (UTG more likely than Button). I've witnessed about a 5-10% chance to 3bet from any position.

Most of these players are completely unaware of position and ranges. I'll typically only 3bet with the best of hands for value in this pool because I know I'm likely to be called.

Kekule said:

I've seen this same behavior at the 25NL level on Bovada. Most of the player pool is apt to call a 3bet with a fairly wide range, but reluctant to make a 3bet.

My numbers show about 40-60% likelihood to flat a 3bet (UTG more likely than Button). I've witnessed about a 5-10% chance to 3bet from any position.

Most of these players are completely unaware of position and ranges. I'll typically only 3bet with the best of hands for value in this pool because I know I'm likely to be called.

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What is your 3-bet range IP and OOP? I've recently gone on my first huge downswing (12BI), and 3-bet pots seem to be exasperating it further. Every 3-bet pot I get into for the past 10k hands, most I lose. With QQ, there's a K and A, and they always claim to have it (double barreling into me), AK/AQ I whiff completely, I get bluffed off my JJ/QQ hands probably.

How do you approach 3-bet pots? I find them very hard to play, as they call with a very wide range, and many times I can't put them on a hand. They'll call a huge squeeze with 88, KJs, Axs, and junk almost all the time. And it just sucks OOP because 80% of the time they never ever fold to a c-bet. And it's not totally uncommon for them to call two barrels and fold to the third barrel, which is like a 60% PSB. Like really?

When it's a dry board, they "put me on AK" and float a double barrel with 77, for example, and suck out on the river with runner runner 4 to a straight when I have QQ+. And when I have whiffed overcards, I pretty much have to check/fold because they were going to float anyway and bluff on the turn. They literally float with ATC 80% of the time IP. And when I have QQ or KK on an A high flop, they almost always double barrel into me if I check, and I know they can't have an A all the time. And even when I'm IP, they'll take a card off OOP with an underpair because they "put me on AK," A high, any pair (I see bottom pair/middle pair a lot). I've been a winning reg at 25NL for about 7bb/100, but 3-bet pots are probably my biggest leak. I think I could achieve a much higher winrate if I could play better in 3-bet pots . I find JJ+ a lot easier to play in 3-bet pots (especially IP, OOP is a little harder for JJ specifically though). But I have a really hard time with whiffed overcards, which make up the bulk of my 3-betting range, as well as 1010.

I have to fold out my equity most of the time, and I'm pretty sure a lot of the time my A high/QQ/KK/JJ is good, but I can't call more than one barrel most of the time because a lot of the 25NL players are really spewy in 3-bet pots and don't give up. I've had people bluff off their stacks into me with 6 high (yes, 6 high) on a raggy board when I had KK, A high when I had J10s and rivered trips on the river OOP, KJ AI on the turn after I double barreled QQ OOP on a raggy board, triple donking with 6 high OOP on a flush board and 4 to a flush on the river when I had KK with the K clubs, etc.

6max or full ring? I also wouldn't generalize the whole player pool because you got called down once by someone with 66 when you held AK.

Post some hands?

IPlay said:

6max or full ring? I also wouldn't generalize the whole player pool because you got called down once by someone with 66 when you held AK.

Post some hands?

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6-max. Well, I kind of have to generalize since it's all anonymous on Bovada. But in general, I've found that they're just really spewy in 3-bet pots. From what I've seen, they're calling way too many c-bets in 3-bet pots, especially IP. They think it's cool to try to outplay me with J high/K high/pairs on the turn or something lol. I once got called by J9o when I 3-bet 99 from the BB vs BTN. Got floated on 1010x board, turn J, he bets I call. Of course when it goes to showdown, that's the last hand I put him on.

That's why I've lowered my 3-betting % a bit in Zone, especially OOP. Being OOP really sucks when a decent amount of the Zone players are aggrotards, and you're sitting there with A high or an underpair to the board. A good amount of the time, they'll just keep firing, and I know they can't have it everytime. In cash games, they're a little more passive and straightforward, not by a significant amount, but it is much easier to play in 3-bet pots.

It's weird, you'd think that Zone players would just fold their marginal holdings to 3-bets since they can just move on the the next hand, but they don't. I've seen the blinds cold calling junk like K7s (cracks my AA on the flop of course), 36s, pps, A5o, Q9s, people overcalling KJo, etc ALL the time.

My 3-bets almost hardly get through; I'm guessing it succeeds around 20-30%. If anything, I'm not sure if it's just me, but cash game players seem to respect 3-bets a lot more and fold way more, even IP. Zone players have a much wider calling range, especially IP; I think a lot of them try to outplay you. I don't ever remember anybody bluffing off their whole stack to me in a cash game on a stone cold bluff with very little to no equity, but it's happened many many times in Zone. It's so bad that I've almost halved my current 3-bet range in Zone. In cash games I still 3-bet a decent percentage: JJ/AQo+ from any position and some stuff like AJs, KQo, KQs, 1010 blind vs BTN.

I would post some hands, but I don't have HM2 or a tracking software . I loved the HM2 software, but it's pretty expensive, and I decided that I wouldn't buy it until after my bankroll was at $2000 and I'm a winning 50NL reg. I'm currently at $1400 after a $500 deposit and a 25NL reg. Hoping to move up soon; I've been running terribly however and am on my first biggest downswing (10.5 BI).

You're right about the floaters. These players want to see cards. Above all they want to see the flop, that's why the 3bet calls are so high. They see "good" cards (or at least pretty cards) in front of them and give it a raise. But they don't 4bet because they want to see the flop and are (usually) smart enough to not call all in preflop with something less than AK/AQ/pocket pair.

So if you are going to 3bet you have to do one of two things. Tighten up the range or increase the raise. Even the most fish players are keen to large preflop bets. Remember, they're not going to shove on you preflop with less than AK or JJ+ typically because they want to see a flop. The hard part is finding the perfect range to raise where you'll get called by worse or shoved by better. That range depends on stack sizes and the player.

The best thing you can do is sit out any 3bet hand that you're planning to fold. Sit out and watch the hand play out. You'll get a good feel for what these players are 3 betting and calling with. You'll be surprised at the results too.

And as far as Zone goes, I find it okay to generalize the entire player pool (separate the short stackers from the others though).

Yeah, I don't got much to say about zone. I avoid it on Bovada because of what you said and the only reads you have are stack sizes. I also think they probably think they are being outplayed a lot and 3 bet a lot so they feel they need to defend wider.

In cash games, my 3-bet range is a decent 7-9%. For zone, they call too many 3-bets, especially IP, and spew way too much. So I have a pretty nitty 3-bet range (JJ+/AQs+ only), from any position. I've tried raising even larger (4x+ for squeezes for example), and still get called very very wide. And if someone cold calls my 3-bet, or the OR calls my 3-bet, there are almost always overcallers. Don't find this to be the case in cash games; I think they're actually scared of 3-bets and generally call with the top of their range. AQ, AJo/Ajs, AK, JJ+, sometimes KQ/KQs (I've actually seen someone show me they folded KQs to a squeeze). KQ is a very common calling hand in Zone. And I don't remember seeing a whole lot of junk in 3-bet pots in cash games like 36s, J9o, K7s, KJo, etc.

Although Zone is really swingy and frustrating at times, I always play 2 25NL zone simply because of the sheer volume. Most of my winnings come from Zone. Due to the high amount of 3-bets and spewiness in Zone, I've found playing nitty preflop leads to less tilt, swings, and not totally sure, but more profit. I've tried played laggy, but due to the spewiness preflop and postflop at times, I get tilted sometimes, and I tend to swing a lot. Not fun. Also hate folding a huge portion of my opens to 3-bets. Seen people squeeze with K8o, J10o, 87o, etc. But not much I can do about that if they spew postflop too.

Once I start to reach a 400BB+ stack (maybe once every 2-3 sessions), I start to open a lot wider in the CO, BTN, and SB, and 3-bet wider. Almost as wide as I do in cash games (around 25%, 45%, 25%) and 3-bet wider in blind vs BTN and IP. I find that they get scared when you're deep and don't play back at you very often. They'll give up to c-bets much more often and don't float and try to outplay you as much.

And they also 3-bet you wayyy less, which makes life a lot easier. Especially OTB. One time, I remember shoving KK into a J77x7 board into a normal stack when i was 400BB+ deep and was shocked to see QQ. I was MP and he was CO/BTN.

I can concur to that. Once you have 300+bb the field is much easier to play. The players give you more respect and play back at you less.

I, on the other hand, don't give the deep stackers any more credit than the 100bb stacks. I have no way of knowing how they got that deep stack. I sit out and watch every 3bet/4bet hand that I fold in. Some of these deep stacks got there by shoving 9T suited all in preflop and getting lucky. The only deep stack I gave credit to was someone at 25NL Zone that I saw with $300. I suppose 1200bb is enough to earn my respect : )