Bluffing in the micros

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Mitchel Cornodelli

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I moved up from 5NL to 10NL, then from 10NL to 16NL, now i have moved back down to 10NL (i change stakes when i reach 20bi of next level) and my main worry is bluffing in the micros.

What are people's main strategies when bluffing in the micros, is it just cbet give up, or what?

I have no HUD but do take some notes and i play 4 tables at a time and sometimes i triple barrell and lose half my stack, but other times i can double barrell and make my opponent fold, so what is a good general guidline?

As raiser and 3bet raiser.

Thank you
 
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Zin

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IMHO there is no need to try and bluff in the micro stakes. ABC poker gets the job done with ease.
 
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dturner100

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I'm not opposing Zin's statement because he's right. ABC will get the job done and out right bluffing is not necessary in micro stakes very often but ABC is highly exploitable and you'll lose a good amount of blinds and 3 bets.

If you're taking notes you don't have time to 4 table. You're better off with memory strengthening on your off time if you're against a hud.

Believe it or not though huds are great. They don't help you cheat or anything. They just take a bit of the load off.
If you're going to multi table I'd definitely recommend getting one.
I use low stakes HoldEm Manager 2.
 
SerbiaGrinding

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I dont believe in HUDs.

The fact of the matter is, you cant bluff an avg player. Bluffs work amongst pros and thats the end of it. Solid ABC poker gets the job done in lows and micros.
 
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dturner100

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I dont believe in HUDs.

The fact of the matter is, you cant bluff an avg player. Bluffs work amongst pros and thats the end of it. Solid ABC poker gets the job done in lows and micros.

That doesn't make sense to say you can't bluff the avg player. I just pushed a guy off of AK with a K on the flop while holding 3/9o for about $20.45.
Why? Because he saw me bust out two guys within an hour hitting sets on the flop holding low pocket pairs and check betting.

I don't condone that kind of play, but sometimes it's not only possible, but necessary.
 
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CEO

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Micro Bluffing

there is really a no need to bluff, now think about it, you trying win pennies, if you have .02-.10-.25 invested in a pot, how much are you willing to lose to protect that change? :D
 
HenriqueMed1

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I particularly avoid bluffing in micro tournaments. Always have a donk player that will give call
 
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Mitchel Cornodelli

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IMHO there is no need to try and bluff in the micro stakes. ABC poker gets the job done with ease.

so are you saying no c-bet or c-bet give up?
 
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Elena81

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At such low stakes bluff does not make sense, anyway no one would believe. There everyone plays as he wants, and it defies any logic.
 
John A

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That doesn't make sense to say you can't bluff the avg player. I just pushed a guy off of AK with a K on the flop while holding 3/9o for about $20.45.
Why? Because he saw me bust out two guys within an hour hitting sets on the flop holding low pocket pairs and check betting.

I don't condone that kind of play, but sometimes it's not only possible, but necessary.

And the moral of the story is, don't get any pots w/ 39o vs AK. Why... nm.

Yeah, at micros, only look to bluff the Ok regs. But overall good bluffs take a lot of skill. You have to understand the temperament of your opponent, and make sure you know their hand well enough, and the story you're telling makes sense ON TOP of having a well balanced image yourself. It's a lot of things to do well in order to have a successful bluff.

But saying you should never bluff is not correct. At micros though it should be very limited.
 
Ljuk358

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In micro games isnt good bluffing.. You can loose all your money and when you win, you win very small pot.. Patience is important...
 
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6bet me

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I bluff every now and again. Most of the time it's just a C-bet then give up, sometimes I'll barrel the turn if I pick up equity (a flush draw, a straight draw, etc.) and sometimes (uncommon) I'll even bluff rivers if I miss my draw, my opponent shows weakness, I have approximately a pot-sized bet left, I have no showdown value and the river is a scare card.

For the most part, though, I agree that bluffing should be used sparingly at the micros. The majority of your bets should be for pure value.
 
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razzor94

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You have to realise that if you raised or 3 bet pre flop its ok to slowdown sometimes. Its not mandatory for you to Cbet if you think its not going to be profitable, + you are giving yourself a free street so you can fire 2x instead of 3x with the 3rd bet probably being all in.
Guideline for bluffing ? I guess there is none except dont bluff at the micros. Semi-bluffing and double barrelling with a semi-bluff is ok sometimes, cause you have decent equity + fold equity but other than that it just not going to make you money. When you double barrell and the opponent calls you have to know he has something and then its on you to determine what hands he could have that would call the turn fold the river with the given board texture. Knowing when not to bluff is going to be profitable as well.
 
BogdanStark

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Really, without HUD's??? =)
Dude, it is impossible to grow up the levels and play without notes for opponents...
sorry...
 
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Poker247

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Personally, I try to avoid bluffing turns and rivers unless I am very sure I can get a fold. Almost always at the micro level you will get a call. Nothing wrong with a standard cbet on the flop if you have the betting lead and especially if you have a hand that can increase equity (flush draw etc). But shut it down after that...money not spent is money won. :)
 
2Pacavelli

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There are times that even a three -barrel bluff is a good move, but this is very relative. I think cbet flop without many draws work very well
The fact is that the micros are many players that are calling -stations , and we have to learn to exploit them in the best way
 
Dorugremon

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What are people's main strategies when bluffing in the micros, is it just cbet give up, or what?

Know your players. I play against 10NL regs, and I know who the FoFs are. Pick spots where it looks like they've whiffed, and barrel them. If they missed, they're gone. If a two-barrel doesn't work, then don't fire that third barrel: they have something.

Also, if you're at a foldie table, sometimes hit it from UTG with ATC: you just might pick up the blinds. I don't make a habit of it, but do it enough to keep 'em guessing.

Most of these players are so clueless they never catch on. Also, know who the stations are and never bluff at them. Take 'em to Value Town instead.

I have no HUD but do take some notes and i play 4 tables at a time and sometimes i triple barrell and lose half my stack, but other times i can double barrell and make my opponent fold, so what is a good general guidline?

As raiser and 3bet raiser.

Thank you
When multi-tabling, just fuggedabouddit! You can't pay as much attention as you need to to pick up on who's doing what, who's off their game today, who's getting better over time (it does happen). Who's giving off live tells, and, yes, they do exist on-line. Stick with ABC while multi-tabling and forget about running any 2 or 3 barrel bluffs.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Multi-way I'm giving up c-betting without strong equity like pair + gs, bottom/middle pair IP vs blinds on a dryish board, OESDs, FDs, 2 overs + BDFD/BDSD. Heads-up I'm c-betting boards that miss our opponent's perceived range and pretty much giving up if I don't pick up equity on the turn. Heads-up you should be c-betting a decent amount of boards, something like 60%+.

I advise against double barreling without strong equity on the turn in general at the micros. Something like two overs + gs, pair + FD, one over + FD is good. IP I would check behind if the board is too draw heavy/connected and I don't expect a lot of fold equity. People do not like folding at the micros, and they will chase their FDs/OESDs and get sticky with former TPNKs, underpairs to high cards, or "put you on AK" lol.

I also don't think triple barreling is really ever a good idea at the micros. I play readless on Bovada, and I've only pulled off one triple barrel all-in in the past 20 or so sessions at 25/50/100NL. People get too sticky with their hands, and I've seen people hero call me with bottom pair, 2nd pair, underpairs, and junk OTR. A lot of times they just don't want to believe you. You also have to be very good at hand reading, and understand capped/uncapped ranges.

Triple barrel bluffs are not something you should be planning. Generally they go along something like a standard c-bet on the flop with air/BD draws, a double barrel on the turn when we pick up equity, and the third barrel when we miss and our range is uncapped while villain has a super capped range OTR (also helps if a scare card comes OTR too). Don't get me wrong though; triple barrel bluffing with 10 high and getting your opponent to fold the best hand is a great feeling :).
 
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noobydooby

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what exactly would you guys define as abc poker? only playing good hands? doesn't position and aggression count for something? and when you can tell an opponent is weak shouldn't you go for the pot when you know he's got nothing?
 
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MinhANguyen

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ABC poker is basically just textbook, tight play. No fancy play syndrome, and basically value bet more and bluffing way less. Lots of players spew at the micros against people who will not fold and hurt their winrate by bluffing too much. And just because your opponent is weak does not mean that they will not try to hero call or station you all the way down with bottom/2nd/3rd/4th pair. Best advice at micros is value bet more and bluff less. Still holds very true at 100NL for me.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Really, without HUD's??? =)
Dude, it is impossible to grow up the levels and play without notes for opponents...
sorry...

I've played HUDless on Bovada, and it's not that bad. Moved up from 25NL to 50NL and finally 100NL, and still holding a decent winrate. Pretty bold assertion there that we cannot grow up in stakes and play without a HUD. We just have to treat everyone unknown. HUDs just allow us to exploit a certain player's tendencies and helps push our current winrate up. I do plan on investing in HM2 and a HUD when I get to a $5k bankroll though. Super helpful in identifying passive fish whom we can value bet to death, regs who DO fold to 3-bets, nits who we don't wanna mess with, etc.
 
STL FAN

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Bluffing, the word implies someone is making a play, a possible mistake for a pot they are not entitled too. Then in the back of the person’s brain is thought of doing something wrong and they will give their explanation of why this did not work for an example of a failure. There has to be an exact explanation of why?

Understanding how to value bet every situation from +ev hands that play themselves to marginal hands with thin value bets from understanding the opponent(s). This line of play when understanding your opponent(s), this is the non-centralized part of their game to get value when they do not have us beat, to exploit, comfortability from not worrying about being beat and getting the proper amount of value.

When a person then understands the other side of the coin, the centralized spots in their game, where the opponent is getting value from us, how they are playing their hands, how do they play draws, getting as much counter information to analyze. When a person understands where an opponent is getting value and where are they willing to put in as many bets, where is the line, where they start backing off the + value line? This is important because when a player see’s weakness in their opponent exploiting this information now becomes to your opponent a negative ev situation in their mind from their own choosing because of the + value line becoming clouded from not being comfortable in certain situations as an example. Created is the same comfortability that simulates us having a hand, and our opponent again will tell themselves to fold as an example. I am never bluffing but sometimes I get caught from a miss-read.

Centralized spots in their game when they are comfortable, non-centralized parts of their game where they are uncomfortable. Variables, are they board readers, do they adhere to board texture when they are weak but do not when they are strong? Do they understand scare cards? Do they react to scare cards? Are they reactive to my play? Are they reactive to my bet sizes? Perceived betting patterns from betting routines, do they understand a change of sequence form changing up streets of betting as an example? These scenario’s and many others help understand your opponent’s centralized and non-centralized parts of their game to exploit, and to stay away from as some examples.

Bluffing for me needs to be fluid as a part of my game, when I use this depends on what I am reading and not something I just decide to do. I understand what the perceived move is going to be without the need of telling myself I need to bluff because bluffing is not a human reaction it is part of who the poker player is in any given moment. Mistakes are going too made even as simple as making c-bet at the wrong time.

Understanding my image is relative to what my perceived value betting image, bluffing image, which my opponents will perceive in my play, both images in my game, for my opponent will be fluid in their mind, and then understanding what will trigger my opponent to choose what they perceive is the right play.

For example, whether they are strong or weak players certain lines of play will make themselves be known, they will react, because most will react the first time in situations, instead of acting on them the first time because the problem is abstract the first time in non-centralized parts of their game. When they make an action the second time a scenario presents itself from the prior initial reaction, now I have picked up a change in my opponent’s play and thinking in the moment. They made a mistake to adjust, to act, from a reaction from a prior play.

One step behind my play has now been created from them willing to adjust the second time around instead of acting in the moment the first time they seen a certain scenario. The question now for me is did they make an adjustment that is still exploitable because of my experience in these situations? Or is my opponent making the proper adjustment that is above my skill level? How many levels can I think abstractly about them, about myself in these situations?

Bluffing and value betting is an abstract problem, how each person, opponent understands how to solve an abstract problem in the moment will depend how much skill they have in narrative theory, in the moment, when the pressure presents itself, and this includes myself. Practice helps to understand when I see this play out positive and negative in situations it just depends on how much I am willing to push certain lines of play in the moment. All of this is what I perceive about myself, my strengths, weaknesses, also about my opponent(s) game, their strengths and weaknesses that are unique to them. Glad to meet you and happy holiday's.
 
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noobydooby

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Thanks for answering my question MingANguyen! How is that pronounced btw?

I have another question about HUDs. For someone who aspires to eventually play live poker, tournaments and tables, wouldn't HUDs hurt in the long run? Doesn't it make more sense to develop intuition and memory in order to become a top level player rather than rely on the machine?
 
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bbiase

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Thanks for answering my question MingANguyen! How is that pronounced btw?

I have another question about HUDs. For someone who aspires to eventually play live poker, tournaments and tables, wouldn't HUDs hurt in the long run? Doesn't it make more sense to develop intuition and memory in order to become a top level player rather than rely on the machine?

I agree partially. Using HUD is not about relying on the machine, but it is about maximizing the time you have on a table. There's no way you can play ZOOM or multitable cash games and make accurate observations and note taking. This is specially valuable for pros and pros wannabes, who are only exclusively in the bussiness to make money out of complete fish (which is the main and most clear info a HUD will give you - who is and who is not a fish. Aggression factor, river aggression, 3b% are complementary information to specific situations).

OTOH, when you're playing a tournament or live, you should be focused a hundred percent on a single table and your opponent. You are right about HUD hurting in that aspect (sample size issues), but the poker player should be aware of that aspect and adjust his mindset to what the game demands of him.
 
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