Bluffing Gamblers

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum but I need to vent and get some input on my horrible play lately and see if my move(s) have been somewhat justifiable.

I live in Taiwan and I play quite regularly in several home games: 1/2 and 2/3 (it's actually a little more but I don't feel like doing the exchanges)...

Anyhow, I have been getting me ass WHIPPED lately because I keep getting into hands with gamblers and i'm thinking i'm making the right play but I still get called....

Take this hand for example: 2/3 game (everyone on the table is deep 100+ big blinds)

Tight Aggressive player/Table Chip leader: UTG (250BB)--KK
Me: Big Blind (150BB)--KJd

UTG Raised 5x the BB to 15 and it folds around to me. I just showed down KK a few hands prior and I also have an image of protecting my blinds in this spot. I call. the pot is now 32.

Flop comes 5c7d5h. I lead out and bet 6 to test the water. He raises to 24. I think on it for a full minute trying to get him off his game. And then I casually slide 24 into the pot to see if a scare card is going to come. At this point I put him on an over pair in the range of 10s-QQs. The pot is now 80.

Turn comes a 6d. Now, here I know he's trying to control the pot and I know the 6 scares the shit out of him and so I check hoping he bets so I can come over the top but he doesn't take the bait. Is this a good or bad move?

The river comes another 6h. Now, I know here that I can only win this pot by betting and so I assess and see how much I can bet to get him to fold. I know I can't bet only the pot because he'll snap call and at this point I put him on QQ or KK (after the checked river).

I decide to go ALL-IN. Mainly because I have a history of over betting monsters at this table and I know he knows of this tendency. I also decide to OVERBET the pot because in my mind I was thinking this board is too dangerous for him to risk that much with only an overpair.

He starts to tank and then asks his friend....in Chinese (which was something like would u call? And his friend replied, "You can't")....

He calls. I lose.

Can anyone give me some insight on my bad play?!?! I know I should have fired another bullet on the turn....but the way this guy plays I was HIGHLY expecting him to bet on the turn and that was when I was gonna take it down....but he checked for some pot control which f***ed up my plans.

Anyhow, I'm hoping someone can help me understand....HOW BAD my play was and if there is ANY situation where I would have gotten anyone off of KK in that position?

Please advise....

Thanks,

TaipeiLoser

You represent such a narrow value range it's hard to fault anyone for calling here. I mean you're literally repping about 4 combos.

Your flop bet basically gave away that you have nothing good. $6 into a $32 pot is a blatant sign of weakness across the board. Why would you bet $6 if you had a strong hand? You'd be losing a ton of value.

Then on the turn you check, which makes zero sense if you had a good hand.

After such a weak betting line throughout the hand, you shove for more than the pot. I think I'd snap-call with KK.

Your biggest mistake was thinking you could get him off an overpair. If your read was that good that you could narrow his range to 1010-QQ, just fold and move on. You can't win every pot.

My advice is don't try to bluff, it can be very expensive at the wrong time.
Just fold and wait till you hit something valueable than you can throw your blinds at an aggressive player.
I

baudib1 said:

You represent such a narrow value range it's hard to fault anyone for calling here. I mean you're literally repping about 4 combos.

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Thanks for the comment. I appreciate it

Mr Sandbag said:

Your flop bet basically gave away that you have nothing good. $6 into a $32 pot is a blatant sign of weakness across the board. Why would you bet $6 if you had a strong hand? You'd be losing a ton of value.

Then on the turn you check, which makes zero sense if you had a good hand.

After such a weak betting line throughout the hand, you shove for more than the pot. I think I'd snap-call with KK.

Your biggest mistake was thinking you could get him off an overpair. If your read was that good that you could narrow his range to 1010-QQ, just fold and move on. You can't win every pot.

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So, what do you think is a proper betting strategy into a board of this texture to 'outplay' someone who you know has an overpair?

These guys are Taiwanese/Chinese businessmen so they don't fully understand value, expected value, pot equity, etc....

I mean, I know it's hard to get someone off an overpair...but I did mention I was in a hand with this same player a few hands prior and got some showdown value on a decent sized pot with KK and his lesser pocket pair with betting on every street.

locha2013 said:

My advice is don't try to bluff, it can be very expensive at the wrong time.
Just fold and wait till you hit something valueable than you can throw your blinds at an aggressive player.
I

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This is true. It was very expensive for me in the particular game...Thanks for the advice.

taipeiloser said:

So, what do you think is a proper betting strategy into a board of this texture to 'outplay' someone who you know has an overpair?

These guys are Taiwanese/Chinese businessmen so they don't fully understand value, expected value, pot equity, etc....

I mean, I know it's hard to get someone off an overpair...but I did mention I was in a hand with this same player a few hands prior and got some showdown value on a decent sized pot with KK and his lesser pocket pair with betting on every street.

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Just because you are a better player doesn't mean you can get them to fold. Don't try to bluff a calling station. It doesn't work. Poker is about exploiting mistakes and weaknesses. What is the weakness of a calling station? He calls too much with weak hands. You're not going to get his money by trying to make him fold strong hands. You get his money by value-betting him when he's willing to call down with weak hands.

taipeiloser said:

Tight Aggressive player + UTG
Me: KJd

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If you play a third tier hand against a TAG who has 5 bet it from UTG and the flop doesn't hit you, you should get away from the hand. I probably would have called to see the flop since I knew it was going to be heads up.

The board texture was not really conducive to bluffing. If you did put him on a PP that had you dead to a K, he isn't going to believe you have a 5 in your hand and you probably re-raise an over pair pre-flop. Again, not a terrible pre-flop call but you shouldn't have gotten married to the hand.

Try to bluff less unless, or until, you have a good read on the situation at hand, if at all. Bluffing usually gets you in hot water.

If u played him for an over pair, why do you go all in with the small bets u made before. Fold and play another hand.

hobonc said:

If you play a third tier hand against a TAG who has 5 bet it from UTG and the flop doesn't hit you, you should get away from the hand. I probably would have called to see the flop since I knew it was going to be heads up.

The board texture was not really conducive to bluffing. If you did put him on a PP that had you dead to a K, he isn't going to believe you have a 5 in your hand and you probably re-raise an over pair pre-flop. Again, not a terrible pre-flop call but you shouldn't have gotten married to the hand.

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True. True. I did get married to the hand. That was my key mistake. Thanks alot for the commentary.