Betting top pair, top Kicker

H

HipHopStoner

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A have AJ in the BB with 2 callers behind me so I raise 3x BB and get one caller.

Flop is 8 J 2 rainbow... The EP caller raises and I reraise 3x the orignal raise. EP calls... Turn is a Q I push him all-in which is half the pot itself.

The donkey ended up having QK to take a large portion which made me blind the rest into 0.

How do I avoid this without risking all my chips on one pair.
 
M33K3R

M33K3R

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Assuming he checked the turn, I would check behind. He might have a set of 8's. Also, I might just call the flop and not raise the EP caller, since top pair is probably good, but not for sure good. I don't like to risk a lot of my stack with top pair early on.
 
The Dark Side

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He was showing you he didnt want to lay the hand down by raising. And when you made your move you no longer had top pair with top kicker, the "Donkey" did.

You can avoid this by not making big bets with middle or bottom pair.
 
ckingriches

ckingriches

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Well, he clearly represented a big hand in calling your reraise after the flop. We know now that he didn't have that big hand. However, the unfortunate overcard on the turn should have signalled an end to your aggressiveness. There are a number of hands he could have had that had you beat both before and after the turn. Sometimes you just have to shut it down and wait for a better opportunity. I always try to remember that it's okay to fold the best, especially when you're not really sure that you have the best hand.
 
A

abomb576

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His raise should have sent the message that he had something even though he did not. Once the queen came out, you know you do not even have the top kicker, so at this point you should consider getting rid of your hand and moving on to win big later.

What were the stakes for this?
 
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witl69

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I personally would never bet so uch with just one pair i would check check or check call here but depending who the player is and how they been playing if i would ever even raise but I would not wadger so much of my chips on such a weak hand a 1 pair even if you do got top kicker its still only one pair and fairly easy to beat.
 
pifan

pifan

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I think your play till the turn shows is normally ok. but once the q hits you have to shut down the early pos player has shown some strength all the way it is apparent he will go to showdown with this
after turn you now have middle pair with a good kicker and really no draws
and possibly way behind let this one go but i think your play till the turn was ok he just got lucky dont pay him off.
 
WVHillbilly

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He can't fold for less than a 1/2 pot bet just because the Q hits.
 
ItsMe

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Don't know your stack sizes but I dislike your turn all-in bet. I've seen the hand he had (KQ) but calling your re-raise on the flop would have made me think draw. The Q actually completes the draw and is an over card to your jacks. I really don't understand the all-in.

On the flop, with KQ he has about a 25% chance of hitting on turn/river, you'll have to check the amounts bet to see if he made a correct pot odds call.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Don't know your stack sizes but I dislike your turn all-in bet. I've seen the hand he had (KQ) but calling your re-raise on the flop would have made me think draw. The Q actually completes the draw and is an over card to your jacks. I really don't understand the all-in.

On the flop, with KQ he has about a 25% chance of hitting on turn/river, you'll have to check the amounts bet to see if he made a correct pot odds call.

So if the pots 1000 and the guy has 500 left in his stack (obviously making up numbers) are you planning to ch/fold just because the Q hit?
 
nc_royals

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I have no problem with the play. You discount AA,KK,and QQ preflop because he probably would of ReRaised you then. His bet on the flop could of just been a defensive bet to let him see another card for his draw.

By the time the turn came youre pot commited and even if you dont bet he's still going to push allin and Im not folding just cause the overcard hit.

Take your Beat from the donk and get him on a later hand.
 
ItsMe

ItsMe

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So if the pots 1000 and the guy has 500 left in his stack (obviously making up numbers) are you planning to ch/fold just because the Q hit?


What I'm saying without knowing the numbers is the all-in is a bit strange. If you want to all-in then all-in the flop when you probably have the best and make the other guy hit his hand when he is way behind, rather than the turn when there is an over to your hand and a completed draw - it just seems strange, doesn't it, or am i missing something?

BTW I'd definitely be careful with the over but without numbers and knowledge of opponent then it's all a bit speculative. Not sure check/folding would be the right move either. But that's not the only alternative here.
 
reverie

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Raise to 4xBB + 1 for every limper preflop when out of position. As played, it looks fine, but I would prefer to see the full hand history.
 
Exit141RTe1

Exit141RTe1

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Loosing all you chips with one pair. Wow!

Really tough hand and a tough bet if you don't have a read on the other player.
 
doops

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A bit of controversy on this. Bottom line is this: If you don't want to go broke, back off when the Q shows up on the turn.

To me, the all-in on the turn with the J is more about ego. I know the mindset well. I've had the thoughts running through my mind as well. This sound familiar? "Hey! I raised on the flop with top pair, and an A kicker. I am certain it was the best hand. Now the Q comes and dammit he is not going to beat me out of this pot! All-in, baby!!!!! -- can you beat me? .... oh, crap, you can....Well, what were you doing calling me on the flop anyway? You didn't have anything!!! You suck!"

Leave the ego elsewhere. Think about what he could have, and if you think you might be beat, let the hand go. If you think you might win it by shoving, accept that you could be leaving now. Embrace that risk if you make that play.
 
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Daleyboy1234

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My play here would be to play the flop as you did. then bet out around half the pot on the turn. If he comes over the top of you then you're done with it.
 
D

Daleyboy1234

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Yeah i never read the OP Correcly,(note to self) I think i pressumed he had a deeper stack than the pot. lol scrap everything i said. I would check it down i reckon/ fold
 
dd_decker

dd_decker

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I went out on the final table bubble in the Cardschat freeroll at Full Tilt with top pair top kicker, AND the nut flush draw. I was in 3rd place with 10 left. I had Ah, Qc. I called a raise before the flop, which came Q,8,2 all hearts. Ended up all in after I raised and got re-raised. Lost to a set of 8's. There was really no way to get away from this hand because of the nut flush draw with 2 cards left...Another A hit on the turn so I still had a lot of outs (13) going into the river, but didn't hit the flush or the boat...If I won the hand, I would have had the chip lead. Tough one....I guess my best chance was to have raised all-in pre flop and hope he folded his 8's-a risky proposition...:joyman: Top pair top kicker can shorten your stack very quickly, almost like JJ preflop!
 
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