B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
Thin value bets usually occur on the river when your range is ahead of villain's range, although barely. Generally it's a spot where you have no nut hands in your range and villain has very few but you can extract value from the rest of villain's range.
It's a situation that separates great players from average ones who will check back their mediocre holdings 99% of the time for showdown value.
It's a situation that separates great players from average ones who will check back their mediocre holdings 99% of the time for showdown value.
LuckyChippy
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I'm a little drunk so please excuse.
In poker you'll often be faced with situations where you have obvious spots where it's a value bet or a bluff. You have the nuts, you value bet. You have the worst hand but you feel he can fold his better hand, bluff. Fairly simple.
Occasionally you will have hand of medium strength that compared to his entire range is a favourite. You won't be value betting 100% of the time in this spot you may be 70% or even 60%. You are still betting for value against his range but that value is very thin. That is where the term comes from. Betting for value but it's quite marginal and isn't always obvious. You're value betting medium hands against a range.
In poker you'll often be faced with situations where you have obvious spots where it's a value bet or a bluff. You have the nuts, you value bet. You have the worst hand but you feel he can fold his better hand, bluff. Fairly simple.
Occasionally you will have hand of medium strength that compared to his entire range is a favourite. You won't be value betting 100% of the time in this spot you may be 70% or even 60%. You are still betting for value against his range but that value is very thin. That is where the term comes from. Betting for value but it's quite marginal and isn't always obvious. You're value betting medium hands against a range.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
Here's a good example of a hand played by two TV pros on the Big Game.
Tony G raises on the button to $2,000 with
Daniel Negreanu calls from the BB with
The flop is
DN checks, Tony G bets $4,000, DN check-raises to $14,000. Tony G calls
Turn is
DN checks, Tony G checks
River:
DN checks, Tony G bets $25,000, DN calls
Both players have medium strength hands; both are aware that the other does not have Tx+. Tony G makes a gorgeous thin value bet knowing that DN probably has a marginal showdown hand and will call with worse, putting a lot of missed draws in Tony G's range.
Tony G raises on the button to $2,000 with
Daniel Negreanu calls from the BB with
The flop is
DN checks, Tony G bets $4,000, DN check-raises to $14,000. Tony G calls
Turn is
DN checks, Tony G checks
River:
DN checks, Tony G bets $25,000, DN calls
Both players have medium strength hands; both are aware that the other does not have Tx+. Tony G makes a gorgeous thin value bet knowing that DN probably has a marginal showdown hand and will call with worse, putting a lot of missed draws in Tony G's range.
S
Six Hurdles
Rock Star
Silver Level
Thank you for that explanation. I thought it was something like that but couldn't put it into words. Again, thank you.
In the hand described, had Daniel bet on the end that does tony raise for value at that point or can he just call with the feeling that he got as much value with as little risk as possible. He's never folding to a river bet right?
In the hand described, had Daniel bet on the end that does tony raise for value at that point or can he just call with the feeling that he got as much value with as little risk as possible. He's never folding to a river bet right?
LizaBuv
Rock Star
Silver Level
Good example
Did not know what "thin value bet" meant either but the example really explained it well. I guess a thin value bet would sometimes carry some steal equity with it but probably not so much in this example.
So basically it is just a "value bet" but you expect not to win as often with a "thin value bet" as you would with a "value bet", correct?
Did not know what "thin value bet" meant either but the example really explained it well. I guess a thin value bet would sometimes carry some steal equity with it but probably not so much in this example.
So basically it is just a "value bet" but you expect not to win as often with a "thin value bet" as you would with a "value bet", correct?
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
There's an old cliche among poker players that you check your medium strength hands and bet your strong hands (for value) and weakest hands (as a bluff). This is a common spot where a ton of players will check back any pair and be happy to showdown for fear of getting check-raised on river.
Of course the reality is you will almost never get bluffraised on the river in a spot like this and if you do, you should probably find another game.
As for Tony G, I think it is an important part of his style to not give cheap showdowns to marginal hands OOP. Showing that he can correctly value bet his marginal hands as well as monsters makes him difficult to play with.
Of course the reality is you will almost never get bluffraised on the river in a spot like this and if you do, you should probably find another game.
As for Tony G, I think it is an important part of his style to not give cheap showdowns to marginal hands OOP. Showing that he can correctly value bet his marginal hands as well as monsters makes him difficult to play with.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
yeah and I think DN's comments show a lack of understanding of the value of betting thin.
First off, I seriously doubt he shows up with JJ in this spot, like ever. JJ is a clear 3-bet for value against Tony G's button open. Furthermore, even granting that JJ is in DN's range here, the fact that you have to be at the top of your range to win doesn't make it a bad bet on Tony G's part.
First off, I seriously doubt he shows up with JJ in this spot, like ever. JJ is a clear 3-bet for value against Tony G's button open. Furthermore, even granting that JJ is in DN's range here, the fact that you have to be at the top of your range to win doesn't make it a bad bet on Tony G's part.
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Less combos of 7x in the deck. And your the guy who loves to bring up blockers so much in hand analysis...
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
True, but I love to nitpick.