Originally Posted by Deceitful_Frank
Ok I have come around to the idea that 3-4X the bb plus one bb per limper is the way to go but what about if you are to act behind >2 limpers.
Ok lets take KJo for the sake of argument. All things being equal and standard at a FR table I will raise this hand from the CO 3.5X the bb plus one bb per limper. I would imagine many here might do the same with up to two limpers but once you are acting behing 3 or more, just adding another 5c or 10c just doesn't seem to cut it. I am now looking down at a hand that I really don't feel confortable about throwing in 35+c with and am tempting to over-limp and see a cheap flop, hoping for 2-pair or a straight draw... obviously this is bad!
Should I consider over-limping here or bet even more? like 50c to rreally punish the limpers and try to steal the button. Perhaps I should throw the hand away?
EDIT: please don't answer with something like:
"never play KJo from the CO"
This would hardly be helpful and would completely miss the pont as the hand I am playing is pretty much irrelivent. It could be any one of half a dozen mediocre holdings best played from late position but not necessarily the button!
I find myself in this spot all the time, either in the CO or on the Button with a hand I would feel good about open raising but once there are limpers it changes the equation. At 2nl lots of fish limp/ call a raise with a huge range and when you whiff with your hand, like KJo and fish donk bets, then what? There not folding so you can't bluff. I have add the SB open raise and then call my BB 3bet and then call to the river because they paired the 4 in their hand.
Obviously all these weak Broadways are hard to play as Top Pair against most opponents so really you are hoping for 2pair or a straight draw. You only flop an OESD about 12% of the time and 2 pair about 2% so raising these against villains that don't fold is -EV.
I say limp behind. If you get squeezed by the button or the blinds you only invested 1 BB.
Similairly Rag Aces have the same problem in limped pots, IMO. It's one thing to steal from the button with A3o, it's another to raise a limper or two who may call and force you to fold. I have started playing with a rule about dealing with limpers on the button; I narrow my range a little, folding out some rag aces and offsuit connectors. I'll still play lots of suited connectors, 22 33 44 KJo QJo etc. but play fit/ flop with these or check behind as I can control the pot.