best way to extract money from a set

B

ballboy75

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the other day i flopped a set of 3's on the flop. i cannot show the hand since i dont have any program that keeps my previous hands.
anyway, i was in the pot with 3 other people, we all limped in to see the flop. it came as A 9 3 rainbow. im as happy as can be. i was third in line to talk and the first 2 guys check. since they checked i thought i could put a small bet and hopefully make someone think i was stealing. i was also praying someone had an ace. anyway, everyone folded quickly and i was sooooooo disappointed in myself. i didnt want to let soemone get a runner runner on me. i was afraid that could happen since there were 4 people in the pot. should i have checked there and waited?
i probably should have since on the flop there were no draws.
i could use a few good tips on how to get the most for my sets when i get them. thx in advance for any and all tips.:D
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

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Depends on your image and how you think everyone else thinks. Will the other two guys check in a limped pot with an A? Will the other two guys assume you have an A in this spot (i.e., your image is not bluffy/aggressive)? Will the other two guys float with a 9x hand or a middle pp? If the answers are no, yes, and no, your bet is going to take down the pot unless one of them is slowplaying a set.

Waiting for them to catch up, though, is usually futile. You're now hoping one of them catches the turn - but you've missed a street of value w a monster hand. If you maintain an aggressive image, where your bet could mean a flopped set of AA or total air, you can extract value from pairs lower than the A (i.e., they'll call thinking you're betting your position rather than an A).

If you never make small bets on the flop, your small bet is a huge red flag to anyone paying attention.

Side note - this is why limping behind pf w a pair isn't ideal. Let's say you raised and both the other guys call. Flop is A92r. They both check, and you bet, taking the pot w your presumed A, even though you have 33. Change it again - let's say you raised and both the other guys fold - this is a very nice result for 33 pf.
 
kidkvno1

kidkvno1

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No draws you could of checked till the river, tried an over bet.
I have to say, i found the best way to put a beat, on them with a set is to Mid raise, or raise the same amount every hand, well on the button.... It worked, even with CC members:p
 
doops

doops

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Did you limp in preflop with your 3s? Did you call a raise?

The thing is, it's likely that nothing you could have done here would have resulted in getting paid bigger. But you did win it! Could be worse. No getting hammered by runner-runner...

You don't say enough, really, to evaluate. Is a small bet a min-bet? Is this the same amount you would use to c-bet or steal? What kind of players are the others?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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Just put money in the pot and hope for calls.

If they don't have a hand then they fold; this happens most of the time.

You want nice pot sized raises because you want to get stacks in by the river.

Most of the time it fails, hence set mining is often a myth, but you cant play for stacks without putting money in the pot
 
H

HipHopStoner

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Check raise.. or straight 2x raise.
 
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luckytokenz

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I agree with what sly said about raising with the small pair for deception, although i wouldn't do it every time because you don't want to get re-raised with a pair that small. Also agressive image will get you paid off on these types of hands usually. also if the table is full if nit's then they won't call unless they hit something. If your a nit you won't get called. If your in late position, check on the flop, and slow bet on 4th, to make it appear as a steal. You usually don't want to wait untill 5th st. because you want to get paid off on 4th st. if anyone is on a draw. If they don't call on 4th, they had trash anyway, just suck it up and move on. If something like Q9s or JTs flops along with you card to make your set, and 3-5 people are in there you probally should bet to charge draws although I would check-raise on the flop if my table is agressive. If you have an agressive table and you have 1 limper in front of you and you are in 3-4 pos. I would call with pocket aces pre-flop bcuz it's likely you get raised from behind, and if you hit a set it's totally disguised. They only other thing i might do, would be to check it all the way down to the riv and over-bet it but that usually won't work and any draws that didn't make it, you didn't charge them. What's almost worse than raising and your opponent catches his draw? When you check and they miss...
 
PNJs_dad

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When I hit a set I generally bet about half-pot on the flop regardless of if it's a limped pot or not because:

1. if it's a limped pot the SB and the BB players are gonna be in the pot and if your gonna get beat it'll be by them. With flops like 2,4,7 and you having 4s in your hand you can't give free cards to someone in the blinds with 56o or 36o or something else that would have folded to a raise but post-flop looks enticing.

2. if it's a raised pot against 1 or 2 players if you hit a set I generally bet here as well. Cause they generally will have better cards and so are more likely to call. On a flop like A, J, 8 with you having 8s it's best to bet cause if your opponent has an A in their hand then you'll probably get raised(which is good) or you'll be up against hands like KQ with a straight draw that you don't want them drawing at for free.

Now if I raise with 10s and the flop is 10, 4, 6 rainbow I will check my top set at times if I think that I will induce a player to bet with nothing behind me. If they bet behind me I'll call and hope for a big card on the turn. If a big card doesn't come I'll lead out on the turn. If a big card does come then I'll generally hope for a check raise with the hope that the big card hits them.

GL on the felts.
 
B

bilgert

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Everybody limped, so I suspect that everyone had weak holdings. Unless someone has an Ace, they're folding- and even then someone with A4, A5, A6 suited may fold may get away from this hand.

You could check and hope to get paid off with a bet on the turn, but then again, you might give someone incentive to call the turn if something like a 4 comes off and they're holding some silly hand like a suited 56. Me, I'm happy betting half the pot and hoping I get a caller, but am happy just to take it down uncalled.
 
spiderman637

spiderman637

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I would go by 5/10 rule while playing sets buddy.The 5/10 rule implies that you can call a raise with a pocket pair if the raise is less than 5% of your effective stack and that you have to fold if the raise is more than 10% of your effective stack. If the raise is somewhere in between, you will have to rely on your own judgment. With effective stack I mean the stack that can effectively end up in the pot. If player A has a stack of $50 and player B has a stack of $30, none of the two can win more than $30. The 5/10 rule is about implied odds. If your opponent has a shortstack, or he raises more than 10% of his stack before the flop, your preflop call is no longer profitable. If, on the other hand, both of you have large stacks in front of you, you can always call with the goal of winning his whole stack.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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It 'depends'. First off... is this tourney play.. .or cash game?
 
B

BostonRobber

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I don't think many would always raise with pps. Betting the flop reps at a minimum an ace so the ducks are going to fold here. Personally I prefer to bet and see if I get a call than play around trapping as that frequently seems to bite me. You won a little here but you avoided losing a lot by misplaying the hand.
 
Sysvr4

Sysvr4

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The previous posters have nailed it, but to summarize: it depends.

It depends on your image (this is listed first for a reason), your opponents, the game itself, and the texture of the flop. My default is not to get tricky unless I'm in position behind a maniac who I know can't help himself. The only question there becomes, when do I raise him?

I almost never play it slow and either lose the pot or have to make a hard decision later in the hand.
 
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