Originally Posted by beanstalk
OP. Don't have any zoom experience so was interested in your post. Your logic seems strong over all.
This one statement got me thinking though:
"There is no need to open 6's and below because people will always raise your limp"
Won't a thinking opponent put you on a small pocket pair when you do this and pot control or fold when you flop the set, thus eliminating your implied odds.
If you are happy to call a raise anyways, why not open it yourself? Are you worried about the 3 bet being too large?
Ill address this post and then get onto ramdeebam's.
Yes exactly regarding 6's and below. If you open them there is a reasonable chance you will be 3bet by someone with position on you and it gets really expensive calling all these raises. If you limp, an opponent will only really raise you up 4x the limp maybe 5 and then you have the odds to call. If you open 6's and get 3bet really large, which a lot of people do because they want to deny you set mining odds, you have to fold. So limping the small and mediums ensures you see as many flops as possible thus you will hit more sets.
It is true that a thinking opponent will put you on a set some of the time here, but at micro zoom, there are not too many of these players and the amounts of sets you hit by limp calling will far outweigh the pots you don't get value from by thinking opponents.
Ramdeebam, I understand why you might not appreciate my advice. I have seen you post in other topics and you seem a knowledgeable guy and I respect your views even if they constantly come across as a bit upfront, they are usually of good content. I don't want to spend too much time explaining my reasoning to you for the simple fact that you didn't read the whole article. I would urge you to go back and do so, and then see if you feel any different. I don't want this to serve as a conflict between us, but I would like to convince you that I am not a total waste of space. So here goes:
I will make a couple of key points. I state very clearly that it is just my experience with zoom and it DOES make me money. I state that it is just a thought process and people are perfectly entitled to ignore my advice, I also wanted to prompt a discussion about zoom so others could get involved and I am perfectly open to improvements on my game. There is no better way to generate discussion than to right an article about your own experiences.
What is also key, which you didnt spot because you failed to read the whole article, is that I dont advocate folding bottom set at all. I suggest that you should proceed with care. If the pot has been limped into multi way by several opponents, and then some guy just cant wait to get his money in, the chances are.... your tiny set is beat. If however you call an open raise for 3 or 4x, and the dude decides he wants to stack off on the flop then you are definitely calling that, because he is much more likely to have a high pair because of the open raise from EP or MP.
Another point is that I stated that I only played 2 and 5nl zoom, and that I have played about 10k hands of 10nl as well as watching my brother play 10nl all day long. I cant make this point more strongly, that after getting kings in preflop on a 5nl or 10nl zoom table, I was almost ALWAYS up against AA and sometimes KK. I got KK in preflop for a long stretch of hands before I came to the conclusion that it wasnt profitable to do so. Better to play KK Against a wider 3bet range and make your money with KK against JJ and QQ that way instead. I at no point said this applies to the stakes YOU are playing 25nl and above. In fact I categorically state that I do NOT play 25 zoom and you not listen to my advice when playing those stakes.
I will also like to post my graph for the last 2 weeks of zoom. I have been slacking a bit because I have been trying to learn STT's at the same time. This graph is only a tiny sample of my hands played on zoom. A lot of my hands were played without pokertracker because I have been staying with my mum for a few weeks prior to this, but when I got home I started using pokertracker again and this is what happened. I can assure you my profit is much larger if you count in the other hands of zoom I have been playing.
The graph is small and I can't seem to make it bigger, but the stats are