Beating LAGs at live poker?

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After coming off a few nice sessions, my most recent session went downhill quick being surrounded by at least half a table of maniac LAGs (2 were pretty skilled LAGs and 2 were complete maniacs). Two in particular were a real headache for me, both would raise excessively pre flop pretty much any two cards and were happy to show their terrible cards catching miracle outs and/or stone cold bluffs.

On one hand I had 1010 on button ahead of one of the worse LAG players. I raise, he calls, flop comes nice and low, unconnected rainbow. I bet pot, he calls. Turn pairs the board and signals a little danger. I bet again, he calls, river comes a blank, still no high cards. I make about a 1/2 bet , he doubles it, I tank and call. He shows K4o for three of a kind 4s on a the turn to beat my 1010.

On another hand that ended the session for me, one of the better LAGs who was raising every hand pre but cheaply I get to flop with QJo to see a 7Q2 rainbow. He bets pot (as he seems to do every hand), so I double it. He thinks and goes all in. As a maniac whose been shoving A high and small pairs or something like Q4o sometimes on these boards and being short stacked I figure I'm mostly ahead here. He turns over KK and wins.


So how do you combat these LAG players when you play them? The worse ones I can usually just trap if I get strong hands or make a small bluff catcher call , the better ones seem to be skilled at showing little rhyme or reason for their betting and like the second hand above, it sometimes pays off for them.

How do you go about beating the LAGs?
 
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1. TAG is good. If you sai he is agro you should lat him dig his own grave
2. Dont fold good hands just beacuse you think he might have a street/flush/fullhouse...
3. 3bets are usuualy indicative of mosnters for lags (unless you've seen a lot of bluffs)
4. You've caught a cooler from his set of 4s. this will happen, dont sweat it =)
 
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1. TAG is good. If you sai he is agro you should lat him dig his own grave
2. Dont fold good hands just beacuse you think he might have a street/flush/fullhouse...
3. 3bets are usuualy indicative of mosnters for lags (unless you've seen a lot of bluffs)
4. You've caught a cooler from his set of 4s. this will happen, dont sweat it =)

Thanks for the feedback!

On 1.) you're right, I usually let them do this but I guess being card dead I got a little too eager with decent but not solid hands to trap at the wrong time.

2.) I agree. I watched the one bad LAG bluff off his entire stack with K high on a rivered flush, another LAG insta called him with 2 pair.

3.) Yeah I had hoped my 3 betting in some spots signaled, as the TAG I am, that I was trying to send a message, but you're right the really skilled LAG who had KK definitely played into this and had a monster.

4.) Trip 4s, but yeah I couldn't be upset with this hand, I had him pre and on flop , he was betting into me with air then with a pair that improved.
 
George Lewis

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One thing you should learn at these live tables but online too is that you do not have to play against them if you do not want to. Pick up your chips and go have a burger. Come back and find a new table and do not feel bad about refusing to play at a certain table against certain players. Now if you are stubborn and wish to battle it out you must realize that you will need to play a higher variance game. They just are not going to allow you to nickle and dime your way to a win. You will be playing a better range so do not back down when you feel you have an edge. You got into some big hands and lost some. It happens. to play these guys you will need to have a strong stomach. Otherwise no shame in walking away.
 
TeUnit

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think position and value bets are your friend in this situation

watch and see if he folds to aggression, if he doesnt - value own him, if he does just keep betting into him, you also may want to experiment with your sizing
 
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One thing you should learn at these live tables but online too is that you do not have to play against them if you do not want to. Pick up your chips and go have a burger. Come back and find a new table and do not feel bad about refusing to play at a certain table against certain players. Now if you are stubborn and wish to battle it out you must realize that you will need to play a higher variance game. They just are not going to allow you to nickle and dime your way to a win. You will be playing a better range so do not back down when you feel you have an edge. You got into some big hands and lost some. It happens. to play these guys you will need to have a strong stomach. Otherwise no shame in walking away.

Funny you say that. I found myself at a table with one of the same LAGs last night, I managed to avoid his traps and take a few bucks off him but ran into another LAG who was re-raising with a small pocket pair on a high paired board and face card with me holding trips with top kicker. The LAG was in there re-raising me when he had 2 outs. And of course got his out. To be fair I've been on the other side as well, and caught my 2 outers, but usually due to a mistake by the other player letting me see a card for cheap when I'm holding a huge overpair or set.

You are right though, playing against these LAGs definitely increases variance. I trapped this guy got him to bet into me, sent a clear message with my re-raise that I had him beat and he got rewarded for his aggression. It's one thing to lead out big draws knowing if you hit as a LAG you're getting paid. It's another to turn a 2 outer low card that makes little sense and get paid off. I've made most of my profits vs either LAGs that don't know when they're beat or people who can't let go of AA. I'm not a huge fan of switching tables live because I like that once I have identified certain types of players, I can play a little lower variance game by making better decisions with the info.
 
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watch and see if he folds to aggression, if he doesnt - value own him, if he does just keep betting into him, you also may want to experiment with your sizing

Thanks for the tip. Funny thing, I ran into another LAG who stacked me with a 2 outer he had no business being involved in. I checked back trips with top kicker on a beautiful board after he fired in a PFR knowing he'd try to push me out. He bets just under pot, I think and 3x his raise, he announces my move indicates weakness to the table and calls. Turn comes a low seemingly safe card, he bets about half pot, I have about less than double that left and shove, he insta calls, shows his turned 2 outer for the win with his underpair pocket pair. The guy quite literally was happily raising a small pocket pair on a board where he was crushed and happily called a 3x re-raise with 2 outs.

What tips do you have on sizing in these spots?

I figured I was betting for value here and if I had bet any bigger or shoved he folds anyways. He had a 7.37% chance of hitting his 2 outer by river. I'm actually surprised he didn't just reshove on the flop as there was a card out there on flop that would make people think. I've often been labeled patient and a bit nitty live, even by this player. So it was baffling that he'd continue the hand when so massively behind facing aggression from me.
 
TeUnit

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sizing

Thanks for the tip. Funny thing, I ran into another LAG who stacked me with a 2 outer he had no business being involved in. I checked back trips with top kicker on a beautiful board after he fired in a PFR knowing he'd try to push me out. He bets just under pot, I think and 3x his raise, he announces my move indicates weakness to the table and calls. Turn comes a low seemingly safe card, he bets about half pot, I have about less than double that left and shove, he insta calls, shows his turned 2 outer for the win with his underpair pocket pair. The guy quite literally was happily raising a small pocket pair on a board where he was crushed and happily called a 3x re-raise with 2 outs.

What tips do you have on sizing in these spots?

I figured I was betting for value here and if I had bet any bigger or shoved he folds anyways. He had a 7.37% chance of hitting his 2 outer by river. I'm actually surprised he didn't just reshove on the flop as there was a card out there on flop that would make people think. I've often been labeled patient and a bit nitty live, even by this player. So it was baffling that he'd continue the hand when so massively behind facing aggression from me.


if the villan doesnt like to fold then try betting larger with better hands, this works best in low level buyins and live, doesnt work as well with more observant opponents

if the villan is more fit or fold, then try betting smaller like 1/3 pot
 
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if the villan doesnt like to fold then try betting larger with better hands, this works best in low level buyins and live, doesnt work as well with more observant opponents

if the villan is more fit or fold, then try betting smaller like 1/3 pot


Thanks. Yeah I figured betting 3x his raise into him on flop was a clear signal that his 2 outer draw was no good. Apparently in his words "it was only X amount more." So maybe I overestimated his ability and he was just fishy.
 
Aces2w1n

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Not reading responses but best way to beat a LAG is be able to think like one.

learn how to play LAG.

thank me later
 
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against LAG
first never call him, even you have nuts, never call him.

finding any good EV spot to raise or else fold.

the key points against LAG is never call.
raise /bet or fold if you can.

and 2nd thing is if you want to keep edge against LAG, you need to do more, you need to know more accurate equity.

so in general, you need to be a better LAG against LAG.

PS: never tighten up. tighten up against LAG is loosing money. your two cards are faced up against LAGs.
more important: you need to accustomized to large variance against LAGs. Do not be afraid to down about 7-8 buyins against LAGs it is very normal, just like down 3 buyins playing against TAG.
 
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