Beating 1/3 Poker and the Swings

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FoBreeze

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Is there anyone out there that plays 1/3 a lot and beats it? I have days when I just don't get any cards after playing for hours... I won't flop a thing and my bluffs don't work even though I have a tight table image.

Then I'll have winning streaks too where I get premium hands a lot ect. I don't know what to think of the downswings. I almost feel like I'll just want to go and fold 95% of the hands and limp in with my marginal crap and fold on the flip when it doesn't hit... But it just can get boring not making moves.

But seriously, do you ever have sessions where you hardly played, and when you did raise or semi bluff it doesn't work or you get money in and just get out drawn?

I just had a 4-5 hour session... Didn't catch crap... Hardly any playable hands... Lost $425... Is this normal?
 
Jillychemung

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Hell yes that's normal!! Here's my $200NLH graph, as you see I'm about 60% winning sessions. And my sessions only average about 4 hours (due to where I play).
 

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FoBreeze

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Nice graph. So that calculates to about 1 time a week over 3 years... Maybe 2 times a week. Did you start playing more recently? Is that about $25 an hour? What is your average win session vs losing session?
 
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Aaron Soto

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I play 1-3 daily

Yes, what you are going through is normal.
Card dead for hours on end.
Some days your getting Aces, Kings, Queens, AK, hitting sets etc.
Those are the great days.
Swings of losing 300$ buy-in after doing everything almost correct and still losing is normal.
But there are also days where you can make up to 1,000$ in about two hours.

Here is my suggestion. Avoid all coin-toss situations if possible. Even if you are card dead. Yes, i know when your card dead shoving seems like such a good idea when suddenly those pocket 10's or 9's come up. But being card dead is really just part of the grind sometimes. Still, you have to wait until you have the right hands and make sure you hit the flop strong.

There can be days where you practically burn through your stack just trying to see the flop and missing the flop a good 5x or 8x or keep making mid pairs or low pairs etc.


Here are some days of examples of me winning and losing
1/24/16 +332.00
1/25/16 +238.00
1/26/16 +441.00
1/27/16 -300.00
1/28/16 +158.00
1/29/16 +98.00
1/30/16 +925.00
1/31/16 -693.00

So this is kind of what my days look like. These are typically in 4-5 hour sessions also. On those bad days, i am typically just card dead for hours on end.....and it sucks. But you have to just accept it. Do not, make any irrational moves. You can end up losing even more. Guess that is all I have to say.
 
Jillychemung

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Nice graph. So that calculates to about 1 time a week over 3 years... Maybe 2 times a week. Did you start playing more recently? Is that about $25 an hour? What is your average win session vs losing session?

2013 84 sessions 340h $35.15/hr
2014 47 sessions 220h $15.91/hr
2015 34 sessions 163h $5.08/hr

Average winning session is +$875, average losing session is -$461

I play in a local club, players & games have changed dramatically since the start of 2013. Lost a number of NLH rec players, game switched to LO8 and etc.

If you play at a casino that has a constant supply of fresh players and doesn't get more than 2-3 regs per table then you should be able to get a rough idea of what your rate will be after 60-70 sessions.

You can find my yearly summaries in my live thread.
 
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FoBreeze

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Thanks for the replies. Aaron, how long have you been playing btw?

Jilly, do you play with all regulars? The casino I play at has 70-80% regulars when I play. I am a poker dealer, so I'm almost always working during the weekend when there's a lot of bad players.

Does your local club take a rake? Aaron, what is the rake at the casino you play? The casino I go to is 10% up to $5 plus $2 for promotions (I wish it was only $1).

Another thing too… They have a large buy in rule too. You can buy in for up to 70% of the largest stack or $500. I usually buy in for $200 because everyone is so stacked that I feel more comfortable only risking $200. My numbers have improved since I went down from buying in for $300, but I see a lot of the pros and good players buy in for the max all the time. I'm not sure if I'm hurting my potential or not at this point because I think my game has improved too.
 
Jillychemung

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I play with almost all regulars. Club has no rake, seat rental is $5/hr, dealer only works for tips.

If you aren't buying in for the max allowed, you are hurting your profit potential. This is a huge reason that you have to have good BRM so that you can play fully stacked.
 
Aaron Soto

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Just my suggestion about how much your buying in for.

You buy in what ever you feel comfortable with man. If 300.00 seems like to much then guess what, it probably is. You have to honestly really, really know what you are doing if you buy in for 300.00. Believe me man, i know. One bad mistake can cost you an entire buy-in and you don't want that to happen. Just stick to your normal game plan. ABC Poker works wonders believe me. Knowing how to pick up on reads on your opponents can help too.

I been playing for years now. I just recently.....2 months ago began making a living at it. I been doing solid for two months straight. Cashing in almost 2/3 of the days I would say, if not more. 200 here, 300 here, 500 there some days 100, some days even 900 (amazing surreal day wow). Playing on the 1-3 table you have to know what you are doing. Do not let anyone on these forums fool you into believing that people on the 1-3 tables are "donkeys", "recreational players", etc.

The truth of the matter is. Any person with half a brain can flop a set. Any person holding a hand can flop an open ended straight or a flush draw it does not take a rocket scientist to know that. Avoid gambling. Play solid Poker.

Rake at my casino is i believe 4$ a hand if it's 9 handed from what I know and if the pot is over 15$. Pretty sure that is what the dealer told me today. (I asked her about it. Felt kind of uncomfortable asking her that.)

I know exactly what you mean though man when you say your not catching anything. And you see your stack just going down and down and down. I hate those days.....believe me. I do a review of my entire session after the day is over. It is amazing how much money I'm leaking out by

"Not getting pot odds to chase a straight"
"Calling down to the river only to beat by higher two-pair or trips"
"Calling from early position, only to fold a weaker hand to a raise"
"Betting big on Top-Pair only to fold to a re-raise off the flop or turn"
"Getting myself into coin-toss situations is extremely -Negative EV decisions 50/50 chances are not good chances that is exactly what it is. A chance. Your breaking even or losing with those coin-toss situations."
"I strongly only recommend going all-in PF with AA or KK only. QQ will do but only against a low stack."
"You should also fold Middle pairs or Lower Pairs off the flop to big bets"

So yeah that is it i guess.

These are all just some tips that can help you man wish you the best.
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

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Is there anyone out there that plays 1/3 a lot and beats it? I have days when I just don't get any cards after playing for hours... I won't flop a thing and my bluffs don't work even though I have a tight table image.

Then I'll have winning streaks too where I get premium hands a lot ect. I don't know what to think of the downswings. I almost feel like I'll just want to go and fold 95% of the hands and limp in with my marginal crap and fold on the flip when it doesn't hit... But it just can get boring not making moves.

But seriously, do you ever have sessions where you hardly played, and when you did raise or semi bluff it doesn't work or you get money in and just get out drawn?

I just had a 4-5 hour session... Didn't catch crap... Hardly any playable hands... Lost $425... Is this normal?
It's normal and youve gotten good advice from others on this board. One thing that I want to point oit that I hope helps is that just having a tight table image doesn't help you pull off bluffs if you're also perceived as a nit. They may believe that you have hands but they're floating flops and turns and blowing you off the best hands as well as your bluffs.
 
Omahahahaha

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Poker is hard. You need to be patient, careful and observant. In full ring no limit hold'em playing a very tight style is unexploitable. Short stacking is also often a profitable decision, especially for a player who is less experienced.
 
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pietpikel

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Is there anyone out there that plays 1/3 a lot and beats it? I have days when I just don't get any cards after playing for hours... I won't flop a thing and my bluffs don't work even though I have a tight table image.

Then I'll have winning streaks too where I get premium hands a lot ect. I don't know what to think of the downswings. I almost feel like I'll just want to go and fold 95% of the hands and limp in with my marginal crap and fold on the flip when it doesn't hit... But it just can get boring not making moves.

But seriously, do you ever have sessions where you hardly played, and when you did raise or semi bluff it doesn't work or you get money in and just get out drawn?

I just had a 4-5 hour session... Didn't catch crap... Hardly any playable hands... Lost $425... Is this normal?
Hello,

Is this live cash game ?

I used to play professionally for about 5 years, NL cash at casino, similar stakes but sometimes higher. Maybe in a year one could have maybe 8 days of winning $1000 or more. But it is not that many days if you are playing 6 days a week, 7 hours a day.

Ultimately the swings and beats will test your mental attitude. Only one guy I have ever seen , able to beat the low limit cash game consistently month after month, year after year. He would be winning 10K USD a month, month after month after month. Levi Dare . One of the best cash players I have ever seen. Certainly incredible patient and mental attitude.
 
Mikeisanace777

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ABC poker is great,but bluffing is key in n/l

If you just waiting for solid situation then your variance will be set,but if you know how to bluff small with good hands,made hands and air then your dangerous and will see a more consistent profit margin in this game if your good.
 
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I'm an experienced beginner. My view at this juncture is that there will be periods, sometimes long periods, where the cards are cold. You have to stay tight. Eventually the temperature will warm and you have to take advantage when the cards are streaking hot for you.
 
Evan Jarvis

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Hell yes that's normal!! Here's my $200NLH graph, as you see I'm about 60% winning sessions. And my sessions only average about 4 hours (due to where I play).

Nice graph brother!

where is the yearly thread you were talking about where you breakdown your hands?

Would be fun to read some of your analysis and thought process for sure!
 
Evan Jarvis

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Is there anyone out there that plays 1/3 a lot and beats it? I have days when I just don't get any cards after playing for hours... I won't flop a thing and my bluffs don't work even though I have a tight table image.

Then I'll have winning streaks too where I get premium hands a lot ect. I don't know what to think of the downswings. I almost feel like I'll just want to go and fold 95% of the hands and limp in with my marginal crap and fold on the flip when it doesn't hit... But it just can get boring not making moves.

But seriously, do you ever have sessions where you hardly played, and when you did raise or semi bluff it doesn't work or you get money in and just get out drawn?

I just had a 4-5 hour session... Didn't catch crap... Hardly any playable hands... Lost $425... Is this normal?


Yes sir, this is completely normal and part of the variance of the game:damnmate:

The important thing is to not adjust your play all that much based on emotions of frustration, boredom, etc. Remember it's all part of one big massive lifetime session and your goal is to play each hand the best you can as it comes.

Starting to defend weak hands or limp in with trash is only a recipe for trouble and will undo a lot of the hard work you put in on other sessions. Throwing in the occasional 3-bet or flop bluff-raise with a good candidate like a gutshot because you have a tight image that day is another story, that's taking advantage of the game flow dynamics.

The goal in poker is to make the best decisions. Win the most when you're running hot, lose the minimum when you're running cold, and be completely numb to the emotions of winning and losing. Wins and loses will happen, streaks will happen, that's outside of your control, just focus on playing your best poker.

When you focus on playing each hand as best you can and don't look at your results session by session, but instead choose to look at them once a month the swings will balance out and your results will be based on the good decisions you make. It will also keep your stress levels lower because you're focusing on the right thing.

It's like the stock market investors who check their portfolio everyday (even though they make no trades) instead of once a quarter or once a year. They end up with the same financial results but experience more stress because they expose themselves to the variance and it affects them emotionally.

Detach from how well you 'did' on any given day, attach to how well you 'played' the hands you were dealt. With this state of mind, it becomes a joy and no longer a grind :)

Good luck and happy stackin brother!
 
Evan Jarvis

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Just my suggestion about how much your buying in for.

You buy in what ever you feel comfortable with man. If 300.00 seems like to much then guess what, it probably is. You have to honestly really, really know what you are doing if you buy in for 300.00. Believe me man, i know. One bad mistake can cost you an entire buy-in and you don't want that to happen. Just stick to your normal game plan. ABC Poker works wonders believe me. Knowing how to pick up on reads on your opponents can help too.

I been playing for years now. I just recently.....2 months ago began making a living at it. I been doing solid for two months straight. Cashing in almost 2/3 of the days I would say, if not more. 200 here, 300 here, 500 there some days 100, some days even 900 (amazing surreal day wow). Playing on the 1-3 table you have to know what you are doing. Do not let anyone on these forums fool you into believing that people on the 1-3 tables are "donkeys", "recreational players", etc.

The truth of the matter is. Any person with half a brain can flop a set. Any person holding a hand can flop an open ended straight or a flush draw it does not take a rocket scientist to know that. Avoid gambling. Play solid Poker.

Rake at my casino is i believe 4$ a hand if it's 9 handed from what I know and if the pot is over 15$. Pretty sure that is what the dealer told me today. (I asked her about it. Felt kind of uncomfortable asking her that.)

I know exactly what you mean though man when you say your not catching anything. And you see your stack just going down and down and down. I hate those days.....believe me. I do a review of my entire session after the day is over. It is amazing how much money I'm leaking out by

"Not getting pot odds to chase a straight"
"Calling down to the river only to beat by higher two-pair or trips"
"Calling from early position, only to fold a weaker hand to a raise"
"Betting big on Top-Pair only to fold to a re-raise off the flop or turn"
"Getting myself into coin-toss situations is extremely -Negative EV decisions 50/50 chances are not good chances that is exactly what it is. A chance. Your breaking even or losing with those coin-toss situations."
"I strongly only recommend going all-in PF with AA or KK only. QQ will do but only against a low stack."
"You should also fold Middle pairs or Lower Pairs off the flop to big bets"

So yeah that is it i guess.

These are all just some tips that can help you man wish you the best.


Great pieces of advice Aaron. Thanks for being so honest with the realizations you had about where you were leaking chips!

I've found too that as I tighten up my preflop ranges for multiway spots and get rid of all those offsuit hands I used to speculate with my swings have been smaller and my wins have been great too.

All about being on the winning side of coolers more often than not and being willing to take the stabs when the right bluffing opportunities present themselves.

I do however think that this point is probably a fine one,
"Betting big on Top-Pair only to fold to a re-raise off the flop or turn"

Because the money you save my folding to the raise is more meaningful than the money bet, whereas if you chose a small sizing you may level yourself into thinking they're bluff raising you cause you bet small. Sometimes betting a size that will give you 100% accurate information for play on the later bigger betting rounds can be worth it (and often top pair is drawing dead once the turn raise comes in :))
 
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1. Are there ppl that play 1/3 live for a living? Winrate must be like at most 10bb/hr or 30 an hour right?


2. Has the games at 1/3 changed in the last few years? Are there lot of regs that play it as oppose to 2/5? Reason being 2/5 has lot of pros since not much 5/10 goes?


3. Do ppl buyin max at 1/3?
 
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