Basic Odds Question

Easy odds question for someone in the know.

Let's say I'm early position and there's $600 in the pot. I have K 10 suited hearts. Flop comes out, it's 7 hearts, Q hearts, Q clubs.

I'm on a flush draw (and a very unlikely straight), but most likely I'm behind at the table. However, if I catch the heart, chances are I'm far ahead and looking at a nice pot.

If I'm playing ABC, my basic odds are 3:1 underdog. Which means a value bet would be 1/3 the pot. My question is: would I bet $200, because that is 1/3 the pot? Or, would I bet 1/3 of what the pot would be if other people called? For ex. if I was heads up, I would bet $300, expecting a call, making it essentially a $300 fee to see a $900 gain?

Lastly, I feel this is a situation that comes up commonly, and I rarely know what to do what I'm on a draw, early position, and there's one, two, or even three other people in. Obviously more than that I'm looking at a check and folding on anything except a weak raise. But let's say it's two people? Do I use a defensive bet to see the next card as cheaply as possible? Do I bet value and hope for the best? Do I over bet a little in hopes of scaring people out of the pot?

I guess it depends on the players, but let's say I don't know much about the players except how they played pre-flop.

Just check. You're out of position. You don't even have the Ace high flush draw, and the board has paired. If someone bets, evaluate your hand/the pot/stack sizes/players and go from there.

id make a 3/4ish pot size bet, if you get called they either have a q or a draw, so you know to play careful aterwards.just me tho

There's more to the hand you gave than straight pot odds. Continuing in a hand is about evaluating pot odds against your estimated showdown equity. With this hand the board paired, so a flush draw loses some equity against possible FH's, so that has to factor in to your overall estimation of showdown equity.

Also, 3:1 odds is not the same as 1/3 or 33%, which seems to be what you're suggesting. 3:1 odds = 25% or 1/4 equity.

I would bet 3/4 like Jcla said. If anyone calls, you know there is a chance they have the higher flush, a set, or two pair.

I think what you need to do is pay attention to who calls (if any) the 3/4 bet. Did they bet aggressively preflop, how they've bet before, and what hands they took to show down. If he's an aggressive player, he could be looking to buy off the pot on the river.

If he's very tight, he could have two pairs and as long as the board doesn't pair, you should be good.

First remember that a flush won't necessarily give you a winning hand, but lets suppose it does. ! out of three times you will get the flush, so from all the chips you would win (the chips that are already on the pot after the flop don't count as part of the bet) you should bet 1/3 or less, to make it rentable. But in this case, you have to evaluate other things, not just your hand. Hope i have helped you

I think I understand what your getting at. You want to make a bet that if called, you get the proper odds on your draw while still having a little fold equity. Is that right? I sometimes use small blocker/semi-bluff bets to bloat the pot when I have a good draw. If they catch on then the same bets will induce a re-raise or multi street action when you have a monster.

If we disregard reverse implied odds, then you have 9 outs against 38 unknown cards that don't help. That is a ratio of 1:4.22. So if you get a call and want to get the odds to draw you need to bet you need to bet $186 to break even on the play.

That is the math anybody with a calculator can do, the decision after that is the skill.

You also need to have some kind of read on your opponent. If he is the kind of guy to call a paired board with a small pocket pair your equity goes up. If he is the kind to draw to weak flushes you equity goes way up. If he will check the turn with a set and weak kicker to an aggressor then you get a free card (more like 2:1 draw). If you believe you have more fold equity by betting more then bet more. If you think he'll call you on multiple streets when you hit then that small bet would be a good staring point.

There's a lot of things to think about when betting. You may want to take the pot then and save some stress later or build the pot for your strong draws to hit. That will ultimately vary the size of the bet. However; if you get caught you may want to use the same line in a different situation or a different line in the same situation.

This has been very helpful guys! Thank you!

nomad - no I was taking fold equity out of the equation. I guess considering that if I could adequately put someone on a 7s and Qs, I could just hope for an 8, 9, 10, or K (although with the K, maybe fold equity isn't the equity I need). I just wasn't sure if basic pot odd calculations came into play when you're leading out. seems like every article, video, etc, always explains pot odds from the point of view of calling a raise. But inclination is its better to dictate the action of a hand when I can, and I feel that having suited cards and looking at a flush draw is a fairly common occurrence.

While someone suggested checking with this hand, just wouldn't seem like the move to me. That's an invitation for either the set holder to set a trap, the weak hand to back out if the turn gives me the flush (plus a free card for a lower holding hand - and Ace would be a bummer card), or an opportunity for someone in position to bluff me out without needing to risk too much. Checking feels like folding, and if I'm walking in with K 10 suited - one over card, backdoor straight, flush draw - I want to at least see the turn if possible. Maybe I'm wrong though. I like the 3/4 pot idea. Seems like a way to strictly identify the hand without taking thee greatest loss in the world.

You can definitely use pot odds if called the same way you would as if you were led in to. Don't even think about back dooring the straight flush or bigger boat against a made boat unless your playing at my table.

If you take fold equity out of the equation and you have no chance of getting a better hand to fold, then don't bet! Or bet the $186 to get the proper odds(which is a strange bet in no-limit.) 3/4 pot is okay if you'll get a call and a free card on the turn, or you'll get paid off when you hit, or you get a fold.