Based on my first 20k hands, should I be playing 0.01/0.02 or 0.02/0.05?

M

MajorNas

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Hey guys,

I've played poker recreationally for a long time, and I just got into online poker about a month ago.

I started off with $20 and nearly tripled my buy in in my first 5-10k hands. All playing on 0.01/0.02.

Then I hit a huge downswing, which taught me about tilt and many other lessons as I finally started to read to supplement my game.

I went as low as $7 total. Now at 20k hands, I'm in the midst of recovering.

Since I got PokerTracker after 10k hands, I've been able to chart my stats.

Even though I'm severely under-rolled for 0.02/0.05, I have given it a try sometimes. I've noticed that I've actually played better, maybe its been due to variance or because I play tighter since I know there is more at stake. Or because players don't call as much as they do in 0.02, or shove all-in as frequently, causing me to fold when I just have TPTK at the flop (as an example).

Anyways, here are some of my figures on the two stakes:

$0.02 NL FAST (6 max): -$21.53 (8000 hands)
$0.05 NL FAST (6 max): $6.05 (1000 hands)

VPIP at both is at 22.

I feel like players play a lot more randomly at the lowest stakes, while players make more calculated moves at 0.05.

To avoid making this too long of a post, here is my question: should I grind it out at 0.02 NL until I am eventually rolled enough for 0.05 NL ($100 or so), or should I consider making a $50 deposit investment to get myself started for 0.05 NL right away?

I apologize in advance is this is too much of a rookie question. But I sincerely appreciate all advice.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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If you can't beat 2NL, you can't beat 5NL
 
M

MajorNas

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If you can't beat 2NL, you can't beat 5NL

Maybe I just have to deal with it for now? You know, getting shoved with a 22 pre-flop against my AK and losing.

I figure it's part of the nature of the game at any stake anyways.
 
ConDeck

ConDeck

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Deposit the $50, giving you a roll $60-$80.

2NL till $100, then shot take 5NL. If you drop below $80 then move back down.

You will benefit from experience and learn proper solid BRM which in some ways is as if not more important than improving your game.

This will also give you enough time and experience to beat 2NL without busting your roll and learn to beat the level, which you currently are not.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Maybe I just have to deal with it for now? You know, getting shoved with a 22 pre-flop against my AK and losing.

I figure it's part of the nature of the game at any stake anyways.

I've had this talk alot so I'm not going to say too much about it. If people are shoving 22 pre, it should make the game easier, not harder.

Once you understand this you will be closer to being able to beat 5NL.
 
DrazaFFT

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my short answer stay at 2nl for now...
 
RogueRivered

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My hourly rate was best at 5nl, but my bb/100 was best at 2nl. I wasn't very good at 10nl, only slightly profitable after 60K hands. However, if I had have been signed up for rakeback, 10nl might have been the best.

I think most important is your bankroll management. If the money you put on any one table is important to you, you should move down. I haven't played cash since Black Friday, but before that, I was a real stickler for having 100 bi's at a level. Maybe that's too much for some, but that's the level I needed to feel comfortable.

So, I say go ahead and deposit as much as you want, play the level you want, and let the results dictate where you end up. Of course, work hard on improving your game no matter where you are in limits. The more hands you get in your database, the better you can analyze your play vs. opponents at the various levels. Just make sure you don't deposit any money you care that much about or can't afford to lose. Most of all, have fun and enjoy the game.
 
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Jreece18

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Don't shove AK pre and don't call shoves with AK pre. Being up 1BI over 1000 hands literally says nothing. Right now you don't even know how much you don't know (about the game). The same will apply for 5nl, but you'll know significantly more.

Do what Condeck said and stick to good BRM, don't take shots at a higher stake with only 10 buy ins in your current stake. Imo if you follow good BRM you shouldn't ever have to redeposit so long as you can beat 2nl.
 
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yanivshe

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even the 8k hands you played in 2nl is not enough hands, so surely 1k hands don't mean much.
If you want to practice your game just stay in 2nl until you get to a solid winrate .
If you want to take a shot at 5nl just deposit 50 dollars more and take a shot , if you go back down to about 40 bucks , go back to playing 2nl
 
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David Chen

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You should feel confident in your ability in the stakes you are moving out from. If you have trouble in 2nl, you'll probably have trouble in 5nl with slightly better players
 
8475483829

8475483829

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Not to hijack this thread, but I think this is a relevant question.. How steep is the learning curve moving between 2 NL, 4 NL, 10NL, etc?

I am a relatively new player who started with MTT and SnG, and have moved into 2 NL.
 
TimovieMan

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I think the learning curve goes up exponentially.

If you practice good table selection, then I don't really think NL5 (or NL4) is going to be that much harder than NL2. That transition is more a bankroll one, imo.

NL10 should be a bigger hurdle, and the difference with NL25 should be huge. Every transition is going to be tougher than the previous one.
 
8475483829

8475483829

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I think the learning curve goes up exponentially.

If you practice good table selection, then I don't really think NL5 (or NL4) is going to be that much harder than NL2.

Can you speak to what you look for in table selection at 2NL? My notes have been as follows:

1. No HUD, so I can't go by VPIP, but I will keep notes on a player's PF raising hands when they go to showdown.
2. I tend to assume anyone sitting with significantly less than a full buy-in is probably a weak player.
3. I assume anyone multitabling with a full stack is probably a reasonable player.
 
TimovieMan

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1. No HUD, so I can't go by VPIP, but I will keep notes on a player's PF raising hands when they go to showdown.
2. I tend to assume anyone sitting with significantly less than a full buy-in is probably a weak player.
3. I assume anyone multitabling with a full stack is probably a reasonable player.
On pokerstars, you can colour-label the players, and if you label the nits, the TAGs and the fish (among others), then you look for tables with known fish.
If that's not an option, just look for the tables with the highest % of players/flop, and check the stack sizes.
You're correct that players with less than a full buy-in are probably weak. Beware that some players auto-top up to 40 or 50BB and are playing a mid-stack strategy. Those are not going to be fish. But they're going to be nitty, so have them on your left to steal their blinds.

It's not only about table selection, but at the table also about seat selection. Ideally, the fish are on your immediate right (so you can iso-raise), and the nits are on your left (so you can steal their blinds).
If you've got the resident LAG on your left, and the fish is left of him, and you have nits on your right, just get up and find a better table.

Also be aware that multitabling full-stackers are probably solid, yes, but there's a good chance that they're very fit-or-foldy. LAGging it up slightly vs them could be very profitable as you can get them to fold a lot.

And for the rest: just pay attention during your first two cycles. If there's one or two players that are in at least half the hands, you're likely at the right table.
 
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beckyg89

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moving up

1) prove to yourself that you can beat 1-2 nl on a consistent basis before moving up- i would say even if you have a bankroll to move up. (bankroll only helps if its going to make you money!).

2) when you do move up come at the game with a very fresh approach because there are many major differences even between these two levels so be ready to learn alot.

GL :)
 
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