Bankroll management: do I REALLY need 40 buy ins??

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newbie27

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Hi. I've been playing $1-2 NL holdem games and winning pretty consistently (on average 400 a week). Of course I have had several days where I lost the 300 max buy in.

The problem of course is that I SPEND the money that I make and currently only have about $600 that I can just literately blow on poker and still pay my bills.

From what I've read in books, it seems that $600 is a perfect amount to have for a 1-2 NL game, but Id really like to hear some more experienced players advice, ESPECIALLY on strategy.

i.e. Should I just buy in the minimum? It lowers power and might lower EV-, but I'd have to bust SIX times to lose my money. If I had say, a 60% chance of doubling my money vs losing it all, that would be:

100-([(6/10)^6]*100)=95.3%

So the chances of losing my money purely due to bad luck would be less than 5%

I know the math is right but the theory might be a bit... narrow minded. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
 
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instinctz

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Hey Newbie27,

I'm not an experienced player by any sorts, but if you are willing to listen to what I say I would think that most players would think the same maybe...

First off, are you playing poker as a recreational hobby or are you playing poker to make a living?

For a $600 Br I believe that its way to small to be playing 1-2NL live. I understand where your coming from with the buy-in's but from my own personal experience with that kind of Br you wouldn't be able to survive the downswings/variance of poker. On top of that I feel that with your $600 Br your would be playing with scared money meaning you wouldn't be making the best possible plays when playing. For me personally I like coming to the table with the maximum amount possible since I like playing deep stack, but it really depends on the table your strategy could work if the table is crazy and raising like 6-10bb.

Why don't you try saving up for a better BR say $2k just for poker, so you don't have to worry about your bills so you can play without worry.

Honestly though for strategy wise I would adjust my play according to the table I am at, so if the table is nitty I loosen up my hang ranges if they table is aggressive I tighten my hand ranges and if the table is passive well I get to see more flops. Also it depends if you are at the stage where you can adjust your game accordingly I know some people where their style is to be a nitty as possible others I know like to be table captains and the latter who just like to watch the show.

Hopefully this was helpful to you.
Good luck
 
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newbie27

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Dammit that sounds like really good advice that I did not want to hear. Im not going to have 2k at my disposal for another 6 weeks (probably more like 3k).

Do you think I should not sit down to play poker at all until then? I truely can afford to lose the 600 I have now.

Edit: I really just want as many thoughts and opinions on this as possible.

Also, to be honest, I probably WILL sit down to play when I feel I am in the best conditions possible. At my last game I sat down and it was loose and aggressive. I paid two big blinds and walked away. I have a lot of weaknesses in poker, but self control is not one of them.
 
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blanco1400

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Well I play live and I would say that you just switch to 4-8 limit.. 600 is plenty of BR for 4-8 its much less exciting however.. But the money can be made.. Mostly chumps on these tables trying to play for the jackpot.. easy money.. might have some old ladies yelling at you though.. lol
 
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newbie27

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lol really? that sounds like terrible advice. does anyone agree with him?
 
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newbie27

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like, it might be worth a shot since im willing to just throw away 600 dollars but totally against everything I have read up to this point
 
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blanco1400

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Why is it terrible advice? If you want to take the whole bankroll and risk it I say switch to the 2-5 game and go for broke.. but if you want to semi manage your BR i would say 4-8 limit is probably the best way to start..
 
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newbie27

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No I respect that opinion. Really. Its just against my style to not play cautiously. I might actually do it after I think about it some more.
 
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newbie27

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Hey blanco, do you think I should play tight and aggressive or just go all out? ;)
 
dmorris68

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To be against your style to not play cautiously, to think $600 is anywhere close to an adequate roll for 200NL is quite odd. That's 3BI's.

First question: are you a winning player? At least break-even over a long stretch?

If the answer is no, then BRM doesn't matter a whole lot other than just being a good example to follow for when you eventually start winning. BRM is for winning players who need to manage their risk of ruin. If you're a losing player, then it doesn't matter how much you have, you're going to steadily lose it and need to replenish it anyway, so there isn't much point in practicing BRM.

For cash games for a moderately winning player I'd consider 25-30BI's a bare minimum, running on fumes BR. Closer to 50 is better. 100BI's is what many BR nits consider minimum.
 
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newbie27

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200NL??? Is that a joke? Did you read this topic at ALL?

Buy in is 100-300 for 1-2 NL HE

Also, the answer is I am a winning player. Over my entire life I've JUST made about 70 dollars. Ive made about 1300 in the past week and 2k in the past month.
 
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dmorris68

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200NL??? Is that a joke? Did you read this topic at ALL?

Buy in is 100-300 for 1-2 NL HE
You apparently don't understand how poker limits are designated. 200NL is $1/$2 NL. Standard BI is considered 100bb, hence 200NL.

Also, the answer is I am a winning player. Over my entire life I've JUST made about 70 dollars. Ive made about 1300 in the past week and 2k in the past month.
You're +$70 for your entire life but won 2k in the past month? At 200NL? So you've won 10BI in a month. How many hands is that? That doesn't really speak to your being a winning player.
 
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newbie27

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You're right, I thought you meant "200" as the big blind. At the casino I play at it says "1-2 NLHE 100-300". This is my first time using the internet for information in the past month. All I've been doing is reading books.

I haven't looked at a poker strategy website or forum since online poker playing became illegal in the USA (years ago).

Edit: I also misread your "3 BI" as 3 BLINDS. Not 3 Buy-ins. Im typing a bit fast and without much thought to be honest.

Yes, I've won 2k at 200NL. I would estimate about.... I dont know, 500 hands? 50 hoursish? Maybe less.
 
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dmorris68

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FWIW, online poker has never been illegal to play in the USA, barring a couple of states that passed laws against it. It still isn't.
 
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newbie27

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I went with the safe option. I don't like to go into gray areas of the law. I do believe you but I would need to have a lawyer tell me that before I would gamble online again.
 
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redwards92

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if you have $600 for poker then just go sit a 1/2 table with the max buyin and play.

who cares if you lose it? you yourself said that you don't.

Buying in for $100 would be pretty stupid imo especially in a live game (unless you prefer to shortstack[mostpeopledont] and are topping back up to 50bb every hand).


If you play better shortstacked then buy in short, if you play better deeper then buy in for the max. simple stuff.
 
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newbie27

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Thanks for the replies guys, its been most helpful.
 
dmorris68

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I went with the safe option. I don't like to go into gray areas of the law. I do believe you but I would need to have a lawyer tell me that before I would gamble online again.
Playing poker online is not a gray area. It's pretty much black & white. Any lawyer that knows anything about gaming law will tell you that. Hell even the DOJ will tell you that playing online poker is not illegal in the eyes of the federal government. Unless you live in one of the few states that have only in the last few years specifically outlawed it, there are ZERO laws in this country against playing online poker. Not a single person has ever been detained or prosecuted for playing online poker.

Let me ask you this then: what federal law(s) do you think makes playing online poker illegal?
 
rock0001

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i even think you should have 50 buy ins to be safe in those limits. still its up to you whether to decide having a bankroll managment of 40 buy ins or 20 buy ins.
However you have to consider that the chances of you getting broke without a good bankroll managment are extremely high, and you could easily lose even 8, even 10 buy ins in a terrible day. it happens.
 
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swingro

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Is it only me that did not understood what the hell is this thread about? Live poker? Online poker?
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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