Bankroll. Beating stakes, moving up.

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davidhoyle107

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So, I've been playing .02/.05 with a 25 dollar deposit, "Not good management", and turned it to 75 in 1.5k hands. Given my current high win rate, I was wondering if it be okay to try playing a .05/.10 game every now and the to bolster my winnings and get my feet wet. Or should i wait till i have 15=20 buy ins.
 
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earlytwin

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I've read that for good bankroll management as a recreational player you should have a bankroll of 10 times the buy in because of the variance. So if the buy in for .05/.10 is $10 you should have a bankroll of 100$.
If you are a more serious player they say 20 times the buy in.
 
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davidhoyle107

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I've read that as Well, but I've also heard if you have a stake you can win at you can sustain your winnings at higher stakes with wins from lower stakes to speed up the moving up process.
 
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earlytwin

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Yeah, you can try from time to time to take a shot. If it works out and you feel comfortable and are winning then you can advance.
But you have to watch out not to fall in the trap that you keep on playing at the higher stake if you are losing. You need to have the mindset to be prepared to take a step down if needed. So you don't blow up your bankroll. Some players do the opposite and try higher stakes to make good there losses but that is a losing strategy in my opinion.
 
Slexx

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Do not rush to move to higher stakes in poker. You always have time to do it. You need to accumulate a higher bankroll, at least, up to 130-150 dollars. I hurried to go to the 8/16 bet with $100 bankroll. in the end, all lost. you decide of course
 
sryulaw

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if you suber you will be caught by the best level of the buy in larger player. hit the level where I have a 20% fixed profit .. yes yes change buy
 
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earlytwin

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@ sryulaw
I don't quite understand what you are saying cause your response is a bit cryptic for me. Sorry, maybe my fault.
Do you mean, yes take a shot or what do you mean?
 
Omahahahaha

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1.5k hands is not a lot so we can't really make too many inferences about your winrate just yet. Assuming that you don't mind losing this money, for example if you had a job and the ability to reload, then it would be fine to play some NLHE $10. On the other hand if you couldn't or really don't want to reload then you should stick to NLHE $5.
 
Clasher

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Try some low buy in sit and go or tourneys you may hit something..
GL 👌
 
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Rational Madman

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You had good luck at a lot of deep-stack showdowns against the other big stack on the table. This won't carry you through in higher stakes but if you honestly smallballed to the 75 then I guess push yourself as long as you are rational about when you 'let go' and move back down if need be.
 
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earlytwin

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I agree with Rational Madman
As long as you don't force it and are able to cope with loosing and stepping down again you'll be fine. Being rational is important.
And hey, if it works even better. Then you are launched.
 
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davidhoyle107

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I agree. I wasn't actually small balling, but regular tag play. That's more a tourney style for me. Most of my winnings were from raising the pot with a made or drawing hand. I used spr to control loses from drawing hands and maximize winnings. I think some 75% of my wins were showdown.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Some good points have been made here. Especially the point about being able to call it quits and work back down. I tried a .05/.10 one sitting and win 10 more dollars. I'm Now at 85. I think I'll keep playing .05/.10 till i lose that 10 dollars, then just move down if I do.
 
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earlytwin

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Having the discipline to step down is smart bankroll management. In this way you can be more flexible and have a better way coping with the variance.
I prefer more playing small ball and taking more small pots on the flop.
I have bad experience with chasing draws and losing big pots. That's the variance working badly for me.
Good luck with building your bankroll.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Having the discipline to step down is smart bankroll management. In this way you can be more flexible and have a better way coping with the variance.
I prefer more playing small ball and taking more small pots on the flop.
I have bad experience with chasing draws and losing big pots. That's the variance working badly for me.
Good luck with building your bankroll.

Thanks. Look into stack to pot ratio. I generally bet .50/.75 cents on a draw, and then bet pot if I hit. If not I check or mini bet the turn. This makes the pot about 2 dollars heads up. If I hit, I can bet 2 or 2.5 more dollars and normally trigger calls/reraises that result in all ins.
 
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earlytwin

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You know that if your bet sizes are linked with hit of miss then your opponents figure it out after a while and use it against you. I know I make notes on players just for that purpose. I always try to look for betting paterns. I play small ball poker and always keep the same bet sizes. So they have no clue on what I have.
And indeed a lot of players bet the pot size of more when they hit big so it makes it easy to fold.
Another option is to mix it up a bit so they can't guess if you have hit or just c-betting or bluffing.
 
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davidhoyle107

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True. Of course, at .05/.10 I know who's paying attention and who is not from their stats and bet winnings. I'm not looking to clash in a pot with people like you. That said, this is a good convo. The problem with small ball is they'll figure out that you dislike big pots. They'll figure out you're only getting engaged in them when you have a edge. The solution to a player like this is too raise the pot and make them fold. If they call just count your loses. What I do to avoid people catching on is I'll raise the same amounts when I'm drawing or hitting big. Them if I hit the draw, they don't know if I had a made hand or hit my draw. I don't even need to bluff 90% of the time. If I raise pot for a made hand or a drawing hand postflop, you really don't know. I double and triple barrel a made hand and a draw the same too. They just don't know. My play is mainly big hands with hands like A x suited, k x suited, pocket pairs, and a few suited connectors. They never know if I'm playing a set of top pair.
 
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earlytwin

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You have some good points. You kinda bet the same amount in different situations when you know they figure you out. There is some similarity with small ball except that you make the pot bigger and play lesser hands. Indeed you would more then often scare a player like me away from the pot. With small ball I get involved more in pots but indeed play smaller pots. Maybe I'm still to scared of a player to play the small ball as it should. I tend to fold to much I think. Still some work to do on my play :)
The difference between us that I try to spread the risk out over more hands than you. I play more hands with smaller pots and you play lesser hand with bigger pots. It would be interesting if we would meet on the felt :)
I read that for a small ball poker player you need to be able to play good post flop.
Do you use some kind of tracker? Cause you speak about knowing your opponents stats.
 
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davidhoyle107

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I use hm2. So yes, but lately, I've realized I may be over c betting, or at least for the wrong reasons. I c bet draws, which can be profitable. But I think I need to reduce my bet sizing in case they call. Fyi, I played .05 .10 and didn't move down, went on tilt, and am back to where I started. So I'm reviewing my game. One reason I would bet draws oop is pot size control. By betting half pot, I not only get my draw, but fold equity. Plus, they'll normally call or fold. So a 1/2 or 1/3 sized bet could reduce risk assuming they don't 3 bet.
 
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earlytwin

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For me I think hm2 is still to expensive for the level I play. The ROI is too low. I only play .01/.02 for the moment. I'm close to my goal to step up to .02/.05
I mostly bet 1/2 of the pot so not to blow up the pot. It makes it easier to call with a lesser hand on the river when in doubt and less risk.
If I have the winning hand they more easily call the 1/2 bet then an oversized bet.
So I think that 1/2 or 1/3rd of the pot is better to get more value. And 1/2 of the pot is still enough to make lesser hands fold.
When I make notes I see that players tend to overbet the pot when they hit hard. So that makes it more easy to fold. I also see that player with oversized bets get less action and mostly getting called with a better hand. This is what I think. I'm absolutely no Pro :)
Are you still playing 0.05/.10 or have you moved down?
 
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npat052

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I've read that as Well, but I've also heard if you have a stake you can win at you can sustain your winnings at higher stakes with wins from lower stakes to speed up the moving up process.
:star:
 
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Inuitinnuendo

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I'd be fine buying in for 20 of a 100 bankroll if still such low stakes, as the games tend to be much weaker.

depends on your discipline and how well you manage tilt/variance.
 
Syltan

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To continue and preferably until 50-100. Dispersion can be punished for such treatment of the bankroll, be careful and good luck at the tables!
 
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EL1t1

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I wouldnt move up if i were you, its super easy to lose few buyins in a 5/10c game if things dont go ur way, u might tilt or when u drop back u might not have that good of a winrate, 1500hands is almost nothing afterall, u could be losing but just variance (not saying that u are) but id stick to 2 5c in ur spot and grind up atleast 20-30buyins for NL10 and take a shot there then of like 10 buyins max and move down again if i lose those 10 buyins, thats my advice, this is if you want to be safe, if you dont mind losing ur bankroll then just go for it :)
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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