Originally Posted by Mr Sandbag
Yeah limping just feels wrong sometimes lol. Limping is bad because of how easily it can be exploited, but how often is it exploited by 1/2 fish? Almost never. Not only that, but you may actually be exploiting them by seeing flops in multiway pots with speculative hands.
About running into larger flushes - that's entirely dependent on your postflop skills. If you aren't strong enough to lay down a smaller flush when a passive fish is suddenly getting aggressive, you may want to stick to "ABC" TAG poker. I'm not saying you are or aren't strong enough, but if you do happen to find yourself losing big pots to larger flushes in these situations, you may want to re-evaluate things. Also, at 1/2, most of the fish are scared to death of three-flush boards, so if you have a flush (even the nut flush) on a paired board, you better really analyze things when you're facing a raise. I actually laid down a King-high flush today on a 6-6-2-7-A board when my opponent min-raised my half-pot bet on the river. The guy was so tight and bluffed literally 0% of the time. He showed quad 6's when I mucked.
I'm not sure there is much to be said for raising hands like K2o or A5o unless you have a dead read on everyone at the table. You'll just find yourself in an inflated multiway pot most of the time. Fish always feel "priced in" when two or more people call a raise.
Thanks for these thoughts Sand. Not raising those poor implied odds hands (K2s / A5o) makes a ton of sense, I never do at 200NL for the very reason you suggested. I do a lot of research and it does get a little confusing for me reading books that explore strategies that are really for playing higher stakes / better opponents, if you get me.
Re running into higher flushes: fortunately I haven't run into them, but I only recently added hands like 98s into my raising range, so if I continue, it's bound to happen sooner or later. This thread began because the concept
of raising pre with them being a losing play at these stakes occurred to me. Raise or over limp, one needs to play them well post-flop either way I guess. I do play pretty ABC tag live, my post-flop skills are OK (improving!) rather than excellent, but yeah I'm capable of putting info together and laying down hands.
I hear you re paired boards. Very nice fold on the quad 6s hand! I lay down a nut flush hand against a decent reg (looser than me but not desperately so) a few weeks back.
My hand A9hearts (CO) - effective stacks $315 (200NL)
Folded to me, aside from one limper: I raise to $10
Two callers: (button and BB)
Board: Jh 7h 3c (pot approx. $30)
Checked to me, I bet $20, button calls, BB folds. Put villain on mostly Jx hands at this stage, maybe 78s or 67s including weaker flush draws with one pair.
Turn: 3h ($70)
I bet $20 again here, button calls. This I think was a huge mistake, as I'm pricing in boat draws. $55 would have told me a lot more about his hand. I think this was a rookie error around being too greedy / slowplaying the near nuts.
River Js (110)
This was really a disgusting card! At this point, I check and fold to a $80 bet. Villain showed KJ for a full house. Well, ofc he did!