bad to call 3 bet oop

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js520

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I was reading a cash game hand analysis from a while back with a situation where hero 3bet on the button and got called by the original raiser. On the first comments on this hand, someone said that it's a huge leak in villains game to be cold calling a 3bet oop. So say you and villain are both 100bb deep and you have a hand like QQ,JJ,TT or AK in mp, you make the standard raise and a decent reg (who you haven't seen making many plays and 3bets a reasonable amount of time) 3 bets a standard amount from the button. Is it bad to just call with hands like this oop? Generally I don't see these type of hands as strong enough to 4bet but too good to fold. Should it either be 4bet or fold?
 
absoluthamm

absoluthamm

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I was reading a cash game hand analysis from a while back with a situation where hero 3bet on the button and got called by the original raiser. On the first comments on this hand, someone said that it's a huge leak in villains game to be cold calling a 3bet oop. So say you and villain are both 100bb deep and you have a hand like QQ,JJ,TT or AK in mp, you make the standard raise and a decent reg (who you haven't seen making many plays and 3bets a reasonable amount of time) 3 bets a standard amount from the button. Is it bad to just call with hands like this oop? Generally I don't see these type of hands as strong enough to 4bet but too good to fold. Should it either be 4bet or fold?
You won't 4Bet with any of those hands? Your first problem is that you are narrowing yourself way too much. Without more information about this reg it's hard to give more information. For example, if I had 10k hands on a reg and his 3B is <1%, then I am folding. Same guy with a 3B of 5%, and I am willing to make a 4Bet, definitely with AK/QQ, possibly JJ/TT/--.
 
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js520

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yes i would 4 bet these type of hands sometimes against someone who has been 3betting me a lot but generally i would call. Maybe this is a mistake of mine. As you said though if someone with a 5% 3 bet did 3 bet u and you were holding TT/JJ and would be oop post flop is it either fold or 4bet? Is calling out of the question?
 
taaron

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Put it to you this way, regs are more so "thinking" players. So when we flat a 3bet oop we lose initiative (i.e. donking obv. not good unless we can level a reg into calling w/ worse if our hand hits hard on the flop-but most often this is really bad.) So w/ a 99-JJ, AQ+, it just depends on all reads?

The benefit to flatting is that indeed can disguise our hand vs. a reg, and we can profit from our hand hitting hard otf or when the flop misses his perceived range.

If we are only putting KK+ in his 3bet range, well then thats really narrow. And our hand is only a set mine which is bad facing 3bets from a <1% 3bettor.
4beting w/ QQ+ and AK is standard though, at least for 6max.
W/ 4bets we regain intiative and gain some info if villain flats.
So the answer i guess can be summed up in as clear as mud sorta way-it depends.
 
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