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Ok so I love isolating limpers but sometimes I get another in position to come along and it makes for a wider range of decision making in the flop....here's the rundown. 50nl FR full stacks all around no real polarizing play in any direction. UTG limps and I raise 2.5 from middle with KdQd and the button calls as well as UTG. Flop is Ah3d6d UTG checks and it's on me. Obviously I like my hand at this point cause I flopped a draw and hands that I could rep. Would you A) play for draw value and check here or B) cbet hand and see what happens next. I have more of what I did this hand but I want some opinions from both sides

No thoughts c'mon man

I have played both ways...

Idk depends on feel at that time and how everyone has been playing.

I might check/call or check/raise depending if I smell weakness.

Seems what you need most in this spot is info. You're not gonna get any unless you bet.

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Sometimes small bluff after seeing flop is better than just checking and waiting till you get something. I make mostly 3x bets if have a pocket pair or monster hand, same for example with Js7s (today went all in with this hand and won with two pairs) beating players holding AA and QQ Sometimes it is about feeling and mostly about what your guts are saying you

Still trying to figure out what "play for draw value and check here" means. I mean I think I know what you meant, but want to just make sure you don't really believe there are such things as "draw value" or "play for value by checking."

My guess is by "draw value" you're referring to the idea of semi-bluffing to build a pot in case you hit, but you can't get any value nor can you semi-bluff by checking.

So I decide to bet $5 and get raised to $15 by Button and limper folds..about $27 in pot $43 in my stack.... push or flat? Obviously I put him on Ace? How would you play?

dresturn2 said:

Ok so I love isolating limpers but sometimes I get another in position to come along and it makes for a wider range of decision making in the flop....here's the rundown. 50nl FR full stacks all around no real polarizing play in any direction. UTG limps and I raise 2.5 from middle with KdQd and the button calls as well as UTG. Flop is Ah3d6d UTG checks and it's on me. Obviously I like my hand at this point cause I flopped a draw and hands that I could rep. Would you A) play for draw value and check here or B) cbet hand and see what happens next. I have more of what I did this hand but I want some opinions from both sides

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K so first thing I notice thats wrong here is you're raising 2.5bb with a limper? Make it 4x. Raising to 2.5bb makes the pot 5bb and encourages people in position to call. If you want to iso, then iso.

Secondly, as dmorris stated, what does play for draw value by checking actually mean?

Flat, or fold

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Blobweird123 said:

K so first thing I notice thats wrong here is you're raising 2.5bb with a limper? Make it 4x. Raising to 2.5bb makes the pot 5bb and encourages people in position to call. If you want to iso, then iso.

Secondly, as dmorris stated, what does play for draw value by checking actually mean?

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I agree 4x~5x preflop. I would bet the draw about 2/3~3/4 pot. You can rep the ace, and you can also build the pot for later streets if your draw comes home.

I think checking in this spot is pretty bad, but that is just me.

OK read further about button raising you. I would probably just ship it, but maybe that is bad.

4x pre to iso the limper. When you make it 2.5x you're going to pick up a lot more callers and since that seems to be what your original question was about this is an easy fix.

Snakmacher said:

Sometimes small bluff after seeing flop is better than just checking and waiting till you get something. I make mostly 3x bets if have a pocket pair or monster hand, same for example with Js7s (today went all in with this hand and won with two pairs) beating players holding AA and QQ Sometimes it is about feeling and mostly about what your guts are saying you

Click to expand...

Say what? J-7s all in preflop?

dresturn2 said:

So I decide to bet $5 and get raised to $15 by Button and limper folds..about $27 in pot $43 in my stack.... push or flat? Obviously I put him on Ace? How would you play?

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I think your in a tough spot here and I think you did it to your self by only making it 2.5BB in a limped pot,

Now if my awful math is correct you put $5 into a pot of $17 (think that's right) I think this only made it harder on your self.. Either way you are probably definitely behind here.

Flatting only leaves you with $33.. If you miss I guarantee a turn bet is coming in which case your faced with another decision with worse odds of hitting then before..

Now your other option was shoving.. I don't think villain is ever folding I would guess he either has an A or a set of 6's or 2's since you only made it 2.5BB (probably unfortunately a set) so the only way you can win is by hitting a diamond (possibly without pairing the board) your also putting in $40+ dollars to win $27 so I think I'd say no to shoving..

I might just go with folding here chalk it up to a mistake and move on taking my 12.5BB loss instead of taking a 100bb loss. (again not so good with the math)

^^^Just my opinion and I'm sure the better players on the forums will correct me if I'm wrong anywhere (which I may well be)

sorry guys...what i meant was that my original raise with $2.50 not 2.5BB