The Art of the Cash Game Live Straddle

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FoBreeze

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Ok, so want to get everyone's thoughts on using the live straddle successfully over time. What type of game is best suited to use a live straddle? Or is it really the worst bet in poker?
 
RegHC23

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for my opinion i believe the straddle is just not a good bet. I think it something that you have the practice and i also think that you either have to hit the flop a lot or you have to hope that the flop is small because with a straddle the likelihood of having a good hand is not very high but the likelihood of having smaller cards is really high. I think in the straddle too that if you are going to get in the hand you are going to have to be aggressive and be really good after the flop against any type of opponent.
 
Jillychemung

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The straddle just makes it a short stack game for everyone. Those that like to play 50bb or less stacks love it. At our club the $200NLH game, $200 max buy-in, has a $5 straddle starting at UTG (yes it has played a quadruple straddle a few times, ie UTG posts $5, +1 posts $10, +2 posts $15 & MP posts $20). These straddled hands usually get out of control quickly.
 
PCK

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Only when i`m really deep ,like over 300bb i chose to make straddle`s,i play only NLH cash live,in my city you cant find another type of poker like omaha or stud...
 
Aces2w1n

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Straddle is good for tables that r dead
 
mvpnight

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In my opinion I think the straddle is only +EV when everyone else at the table is doing it aswell. Generally you want to play large pots in position and play small pots out of position so by straddling you are making the opponents raise 12-16$ opposed to 6-8$ ( if this were a 1/2 game) and you are having to call/raise the 16$ OOP. It is not very often you wake up in the straddle with a premium hand and feel confident enough to raise/3bet. What my bottom line is, that I think straddling is not a good idea unless the rest of the table agrees to do it.
 
NCDaddy

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Straddle is good for tables that r dead

+1. I don't normally straddle. I think it is a bad bet in the long run. However, if the table is tighter than nuns on prom night....I'll do it.

I can also see, but don't employ the strategy myself, if you are running/playing well and have a monster stack and want to needle some of the other players that have recently taken a bad beat or are getting frustrated. Tends to tilt them a bit, especially if they're in the blinds.
 
Mr Sandbag

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Soft table, deep stacks, everyone else is straddling as well.
 
6

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In my experiences, 95% of players at the $1/$2 and $1/$3 tables don't understand how straddles lower effective stack sizes. For example, someone will straddle to $15 in a $1/$3 cash game and people will treat it like an open raise by either calling or folding. Very few players will raise the straddle, like they would if it was a limped pot. So you can really exploit other straddlers by raising to 3.5x with any kind of hand that you'd normally open.
 
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Straddling effectively makes it a short stacked game. If you're a profitable short stack player, then a straddled game is exactly what you're looking for.
 
mbrenneman0

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Would it be fair to say that an opponent who straddles a lot (almost every other time he's on the button) is a loose player?

I played my second live game last weekend, and had a hand where that read would have really helped. i had pocket Qs and one player went all in, and another called. i knew one of them had top pair As and the the other had a lfush draw, and if i had correctly identified the caller as a loose player, i could have put him on the flush draw and reraised him (which he had). instead, i put the all-in player on the flush draw, and folded my hand. thinking back i think i could have safely identified the caller as the loose player by recognizing how often he straddled and put him on the correct hand.

i think a straddle is just generally a bad play because i think i remember hearing somewhere that 70% of preflop hands are unprofitable. so youre blind betting with a 70% chance of getting a bad preflop hand. maybe if the rest of the table plays weak and fold easily it might be worth it, but if youre playing with one or more aggressives, you're going to lose money in the long run.

also, i think if you have a tight table image, you're going to lose that image for the hand because an observant opponent will recognize that now you're more committed to see the flop even if you have a bad hand.

thoughts?


as far as the effective stack size, i could see that advantage in that if youre deep stacked and your opponents are short, but is the stack advantage enough of an advantage to outweigh the disadvantage of betting blind? one of the other 8 or 9 players (if its a full ring) could easily get a high pocket pair and you could be stuck with 7 2 offsuit
 
skrsh76

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Does any of the online sites allow straddle?
 
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Rumme1

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In 30 years of play, I have never straddled the bet or raised a bet/ante , without looking at my whole cards. I view it as one of the stupidest plays in a poker game , mainly meant for gamblers or loose weak players. I play in a $5- $10 blind pot limit game once a week, and there are 2 players at that game that love to straddle preflop for $20 . I love that they do it and that I never will do it. You basically have players who are raising , without even looking at their whole cards , and you cant find a bigger fish then that. My style of play is all about protecting my money, not gambling it off.

Now, some people will say : THE PROS LIKE PHIL IVEY AND TOM DWAN DO IT IN THEIR GAMES..

well, you and I arent mulit millionaire players like those guys and we dont play in stakes where the blinds are $100-$200 . One must compare apples to apples when
discussing these types of tactics in poker games. For us, a $1000 loss is significant...for Tom Dwan or Phil Ivey, a $200,000 loss is not abnormal in one session, and is a regular risk for those guys.
 
mvpnight

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you and I arent mulit millionaire players like those guys and we dont play in stakes where the blinds are $100-$200 . One must compare apples to apples.

I don't think them straddling has anything to do with the amount of money they have in there piggy banks. A straddle is a good play and can work to your advantage,especially if the majority of players at the table are doing it aswell. When you straddle you are basically increasing the stake of the game, which means if you are the strong player at the table you are getting alot more money from your opponents mistakes. Phil Ivey doesnt straddle because he likes to gamble, he straddles because he knows he can gain even more advantage over already weaker opponents. "Increase the stake=Increase opponents mistakes"
 
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Rumme1

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I don't think them straddling has anything to do with the amount of money they have in there piggy banks. A straddle is a good play and can work to your advantage,especially if the majority of players at the table are doing it aswell. When you straddle you are basically increasing the stake of the game, which means if you are the strong player at the table you are getting alot more money from your opponents mistakes. Phil Ivey doesnt straddle because he likes to gamble, he straddles because he knows he can gain even more advantage over already weaker opponents. "Increase the stake=Increase opponents mistakes"

honestly, i love being in a game with players that straddle and raise in the blind...I feel it gives me a edge cause I refuse to take part in such absurd plays.....I will continue to let them be the blind gamblers while I continue to play with discipline and look at my whole cards before raising or straddling.

From my perspective...if im in a $5-$10 blinds game..and players straddle every rd with a $20 blind bet preflop, I love it. Heres how I view it :

9 players at the table...it cost me a total of $15 per rd, to see 9 hands preflop...it costs the straddlers $20 per rd to see 9 hands preflop.

If we deal 180 hands in the course of 1 session, it has cost me $300 in blinds to see those 180 hands preflop , but it cost the straddlers $ 400 in blinds to see the same amount of hands. Thats a $100 savings just in 1 session, just on blinds . Winning in poker isnt just about how much you win, but how little you lose, how little you gamble away, how little you give away. Maybe this is one reason why I have been a winning player for decades ?

I dont play poker games for social reasons or to gamble my money away, I play for profits. Letting others piss their money away on straddles and blind raises preflop, is just one way I have been beating games for so long. I actually wished that every player at the table { besides me} would straddle every hand. Its one of the best ways for a player to give their money away.
 
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Rumme1

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. Phil Ivey doesnt straddle because he likes to gamble, he straddles because he knows he can gain even more advantage over already weaker opponents. "Increase the stake=Increase opponents mistakes"

1. phil ivey loves to gamble. he will even bet millions on stupid prop bets.

2. evidently phil iveys straddling to gain advantage over other players, did not work well in 2015...he lost millions in poker for the year.


once again, i truly love being in a poker game where everyone else straddles, and I dont . I view it as giving me the unfair advantage....and they are doing it on their own freewill. God bless them :D
 
Jillychemung

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Only 2nd time I've ever straddled

$200NLH 5-handed - last hand of the night at local club

SB ($170)
BB ($180)
UTG ($350)
CO ($625)
Hero - BTN ($285)

UTG posts $5 straddle
CO posts $10 double straddle
Hero posts $15 tripple staddle
SB will be 1st to act :)

SB & BB fold, UTG calls $15, CO calls $15

Hero looks down to see :10d4: :10s4:

Hero raises to $75, UTG shoves all-in, CO folds, Hero calls

Flop : :3c4: :qd4: :10h4: Turn : :as4: River : :5d4:

UTG shows :8s4: :8c4:

Hero scoops $588 pot :eek:
 
M

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1. phil ivey loves to gamble. he will even bet millions on stupid prop bets.

2. evidently phil iveys straddling to gain advantage over other players, did not work well in 2015...he lost millions in poker for the year.


once again, i truly love being in a poker game where everyone else straddles, and I dont . I view it as giving me the unfair advantage....and they are doing it on their own freewill. God bless them :D

You realise if you are in a 9 handed game, and you are the only person who isn't straddling, the rest of the table views you as a piece of shit. So good job getting that little advantage and behaving like scum.


Simply put, straddling is a good thing. Stacks play shorter, fish think they have a better chance and there is more gambling which recreational players love. If you are better than the game and profitable, its in your interest to create a fun environment for recreational players and also have people putting more money in the pot.

Btw Jilly, your straddling is weird. We usually do it like 5/10/25/50/100

/Thread.
 
6

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honestly, i love being in a game with players that straddle and raise in the blind...I feel it gives me a edge cause I refuse to take part in such absurd plays.....I will continue to let them be the blind gamblers while I continue to play with discipline and look at my whole cards before raising or straddling.

Good luck ever getting invited into home games if that's your attitude. If everyone on the table is straddling except you, then chances are, you're the party-pooper of the table that shoos away all the recreational players. If you want to attract loose gamblers, then sometimes you have to play their game by making a straddle every now and again, so that they don't get the impression that you're just that boring old guy that wants to take their money and be anti-social about it.

Now, if half the players on the table aren't straddling either, than that's a different story, but if literally the whole table except you is straddling and it's a reasonable straddle for you to take part in (like a 2bb straddle from UTG), then I'd consider that bad etiquette. Drop down in stakes if you can't afford to make the straddle that everyone else on your table is making.

EDIT: Marginal beat me to it.
 
R

Rumme1

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You realise if you are in a 9 handed game, and you are the only person who isn't straddling, the rest of the table views you as a piece of shit. So good job getting that little advantage and behaving like scum.


Simply put, straddling is a good thing. Stacks play shorter, fish think they have a better chance and there is more gambling which recreational players love. If you are better than the game and profitable, its in your interest to create a fun environment for recreational players and also have people putting more money in the pot.

Btw Jilly, your straddling is weird. We usually do it like 5/10/25/50/100

/Thread.

your conjectures about the other players thinking im a piece of shit, because I dont straddle, has no merrit. Ive been playing in all the local games for 5 years now, and whenever a new local game starts up, im always invited.

evidently, my friendly attitude at the table, and my good character when I win or lose at the table, means more to the local players, then my decision to not waste my blind money on straddles or raising without looking at my down cards. Yes, sometimes they verbally tease me for not straddling , but we just laugh it off .

maybe they also respect that I am the most alert player at the table, and I keep track of side pots, can do math quickly when it comes to splitting pots in hi lo omaha, etc.
 
R

Rumme1

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Good luck ever getting invited into home games if that's your attitude. .

Im invited to all the local card games...all week long. Heres a list of them

mon - pot limit, dealers choice at elks lodge $100 min buy in

tues- NL hold em tourney , elks lodge ...$110 buy in

wed - $10- $25 limit 7 stud - $200 min buy in - home game

thurs - $300 min buy in - pot limit - dealers choice- home game.

fri-sat-sun - NL - dealers choice - $100 min buy in ..home game.

I can play 7 days a week, if I want...and im invivted to all those games..and they are all NO RAKE.

looks like your conjectures are 100% wrong..ehh ?
 
R

Rumme1

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But hey, I think for the rest of you, that want to straddle, please do it...do it all the time...its a great thing to do if thats what you like. dont forget to wear your cool sunglasses and come up with some kick ass poker nickname for yourself at the table.

maybe one day you will be on tv.
 
R

Rumme1

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. Drop down in stakes if you can't afford to make the straddle that everyone else on your table is making.

.

I actually look at it the opposite way then you do. If the blinds in the home game have been preset to $5-$10 ..and players want to straddle it to $20 or $25 , then other players should not be forced to straddle also . Maybe the straddle players need to find another game, with bigger blinds..OR..the home game rules need to change to $10- $15 blinds .

I can assure you, I can afford all the games I play in, and Ive probably played in higher stakes games then most people on this forum. Ive sat in games where there was $70 grand on the table with 10 players...and it was a live game, not a tourney.
 
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