Originally Posted by Mr Sandbag
This topic is solely based on my experiences at $1/$2 NL LIVE with AQo in early position and a raised pot.
During my last session, I was in the SB, someone in MP raised to $12, a few called, and I looked down at AQo. Although I tossed my call in rather quickly, it hit me even before the flop came down that calling could be rather unprofitable in that spot. After all, what is the true value of a hand like AQo? Well, generally in this type of loose/passive cash game, you're either pairing the board or folding, barring any unexpected straight draws or a nut flush draw with a suited flop. Not exactly a great hand for a raised, multiway pot. Calling just doesn't seem profitable to me in this spot unless I can be assured of getting to the flop heads up or with two other players.
Should I re-raise with it in early position? Let's say the same scenario happens, but this time instead of calling, I raise to $30. In a game like 1/2, I can almost guarantee a call from the original raiser and reasonably expect at least one more call depending on table dynamics. If I get two callers, I'm now heading to the flop with AQo, with a $100+ pot, and two other players who could very well be holding AK+ or medium pocket pair. I'm almost exclusively looking for a Queen high flop or folding. I could bet an all-rags flop and try to take it down, but if I get called, I'm surely beat and have to shut down after committing a large number of chips if the turn doesn't pair me up. Seems like a horrible, stupid way to lose a bunch of chips to passive fish.
It may seem nitty, but I think folding is generally the best course of action with AQo in this spot. I say generally because there will be circumstances where I feel like I can deviate. If the preflop raiser is raising a wide range of hands and I feel like I can get to the flop heads up or with two opponents, I should probably make the call or, better yet, re-raise if I'm confident I can take the pot down there or at least go heads up. Unfortunately, in a 1/2 game, it is somewhat uncommon to get to a flop heads up even in a 3-bet pot and definitely in a raised pot. AQo is not a hand I want to play in early position, multiway, with a large pot, and if I can't at least limit the number of players heading to the flop, throwing it into the muck could be the best route to take.
im sorry but the thought of folding preflop a top 6.5% hand in a single raised pot with multiple callers is just insane you do realize that even if that's the worst hand your calling with your hand range would be : 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+ it is hard to be much nittier then that. Also your saying it could be unprofitable but haven't considered the fact that a "few" players calling likely means you have incredible direct odds
let alone the implied odds of the opening raiser having a likely strong starting range so if we do end up crushing the board he is likely strong enough some % of the time to actually pay us off if we donk or c/r
If your concerned about "either pairing or folding" i suggest you look at a program called flopzilla and see the %'s of how often you make enough equity otf and also consider that we will not always see cbets from people in multiway pots so some of the time we are calling pre to see a turn with a high equity hand
If your not calling with AQo then what are you calling with pre? What is your squeezing range (if you have one)?
To answer the question of should i reraise i would need to know how many people are in the pot, any reads, positions, ect but likely i would prefer to have a larger calling range and include this in it most of the time and not have much of a 3 betting range but it really depends
folding pre is ubsurd, even if you know the person opening pre is only opening a range that is ahead of your and lets assume a rather tight range for idk 3 callers you still have good equity:
Equity Win Tie
29.25% 1.02% 88+, ATs+, KQs, AKo
16.35% 1.07% 66+, A3s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
16.25% 1.08% 66+, A3s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
16.32% 1.08% 66+, A3s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
15.83% 1.74% AQo
that's relatively even equity totally ignoring implied odds and people start calling with wildly wide ranges live once a few people have called i really can't see how you can justify a fold pre