Another example why not to slowplay... don't know how to get out of these things.

Right so last time I played live I flopped a FH 3-way and was criticized after betting that flop (resulting in folds). This happened right after a limped pot when I turned the nut flush and checked, river was a brick which happened to river a FH for villain, stack gone...

So I have been struggling to know when to slowplay and not, hand below is vs a competent regular, my aim was to get money in at all costs, I have to admit I didn't even look at the board by the river.

On the flop he said "quads?", could have meant anything. Any comments, general advice for slowplaying in this spot much appreciated.

Table Information
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($10.71) Dealer
Seat: 2 Hero ($19.3) Small Blind
Seat: 3 Player 3 ($11.73) Big Blind
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($11.11)
Seat: 5 Player 5 ($16.13)
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($26.18)

Dealt to Hero


Preflop (Pot:0.15)
Player 4 RAISE $0.3
Player 5 FOLD
Player 6 FOLD
Player 1 FOLD
Hero RAISE $1
Player 3 FOLD
Player 4 CALL $0.7

Flop(Pot: $2.15)

Hero CHECK
Player 4 CHECK

Turn(Pot: $2.15)

Hero CHECK
Player 4 CHECK

River(Pot: $2.15)

Hero BET $1.6
Player 4 ALL-IN

Completely depends on villain. I'd cbet half-pot vs a thinking reg because my half-pot range is really full of shit + it gives FDs odds to call, so there's a fair amount of stuff that floats. vs a maniac I'd bet something silly like 1/4 pot to induce. vs fish I'd bomb it. He either has something that can call or he doesn't.

Aleksei said:

Completely depends on villain. I'd cbet half-pot vs a thinking reg because my half-pot range is really full of shit + it gives FDs odds to call, so there's a fair amount of stuff that floats. vs a maniac I'd bet something silly like 1/4 pot to induce. vs fish I'd bomb it. He either has something that can call or he doesn't.

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So you never slowplay, period?

I do if I totally crush the board so that villain can't really have anything that can call like ever. Give him the chance to catch up.

This board's two-tone though. Villain can have FDs or like, a random K or a high PP or something.

You gotta admit. Most slowplays with FH don't end up like this and scare you.

You need to let them catch up if you wanna get paid. Very rarely they ever catch up and actually go over your near nuts. The times they don't and pay you off more far outweights losing when they do make it.

Btw, I suspect this one's a fold. He HAS to at least be concerned about the Qd if he is gonna massive overshove with Ad. But I wouldn't be crying much if I call and run into Qd.
I think discounting KK is natural here. JJ IS possible given the preflop pattern.

Aleksei said:

I do if I totally crush the board so that villain can't really have anything that can call like ever. Give him the chance to catch up.

This board's two-tone though. Villain can have FDs or like, a random K or a high PP or something.

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Yes but if he is on a FD then great, I want him to catch. Even a random K would be awesome.

RodneyC86 said:

You gotta admit. Most slowplays with FH don't end up like this and scare you.

You need to let them catch up if you wanna get paid. Very rarely they ever catch up and actually go over your near nuts. The times they don't and pay you off more far outweights losing when they do make it.

Btw, I suspect this one's a fold. He HAS to at least be concerned about the Qd if he is gonna massive overshove with Ad. But I wouldn't be crying much if I call and run into Qd.
I think discounting KK is natural here. JJ IS possible given the preflop pattern.

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Very insightful. I guess you are right statistically speaking, but losing this kind of hand and pot will put anyone on tilt and cause me to spew far more later in session.

I called and he flipped over QQdx

Beasty2k said:

Very insightful. I guess you are right statistically speaking, but losing this kind of hand and pot will put anyone on tilt and cause me to spew far more later in session.

I called and he flipped over QQdx

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having said what I said.
As aleksei mentioned, it's still villain dependent, but to a very much smaller degree in standard situations.

Don't be not cbetting this to a ultrapassive-calling station, they WILL call with any 10 K or any broadway here since they will have that one precious out to a gutshot draw, which they do not know would be their doomcard.

I'm saying this because there are some hopelessly passive players who would not even bet something like trip kings here

It's rare 10nl and up though i think. Even the most passive here have AF of 0.7 or so.

you cant say never slow play, Your not going to bet out when you have the nuts everytime. You gotta induce some bets, here is fine I think you could slowplay it or bet out on the flop. So its 5 handed? and with that flop id be betting out hoping to get a raise and then checking the turn and seeing what villain does, more than likely throwing a bet out and then here comes the 3 bet and possibly the 4 bet with his flush or set of Ks. Everyones different that's why you try different approaches.

If you know that your opponent is very behind its not a bad play to check it down to him because you do not want to shut down him from doing a bluff because he might want to just pick up the pot right there.

Generally, you want to slowplay when you flop a monster and need your opponent to catch up to make any money or when an aggro spewtard is in the hand and can be relied upon to make a big bet.

The hand you lost was not a time to slowplay. Betting the flop will not only get your money into the pot when you are ahead, but it will get calls - and perhaps a raise - from anyone with a King, straight draw, flush draw, or even a high pocket pair. It is unfortunate that you got beat by a runner-runner straight flush here, but this one instance shouldn't really affect how you play a hand like this.

I never slowplay a Monster , cause I don`t want to many players in my hand and isolate the limpers before the flop. After flop it depends on my read of the other players how to move on. Raising or just calling it down.

This guy who I was playing last night slowed played his AA. He started the betting by limpin in and A guy on 44 (chip leader) called and me on the BB with 5s3h check.

Flop comes: 7cKs4h. Guy with AA checks, obviously wanting to check raise, the other guy checks, so I check as I only need a 6.

Turn comes: 6c (yaaaaaaay) Guy with AA checks and other guy checks again, I bet half the pot. AA shoves all in and 44 shoves all in, obviously trying to scare me off with his 3 4s lol, I obviously call, crossing my fingers that they have not got a higher straight.

River comes: Qs

I really can't believe he would play his aces like that, I truly believed I was going to be beaten by a higher straight lol. So glad I never folded that

I play low stakes, and slow playing is just dumb there as people can have any 2 and they are dumb enough to call with stupid drawish hands, so any time you aren't betting you are losing value and inviting suckouts.

Preflop slowplay is just dumb and is usually done with AA. People slowplay AA preflop, then play as if it is a monster postflop and get mad when a limper wins with a terrible starting hand.

Mr Sandbag said:

Generally, you want to slowplay when you flop a monster and need your opponent to catch up to make any money or when an aggro spewtard is in the hand and can be relied upon to make a big bet.

The hand you lost was not a time to slowplay. Betting the flop will not only get your money into the pot when you are ahead, but it will get calls - and perhaps a raise - from anyone with a King, straight draw, flush draw, or even a high pocket pair. It is unfortunate that you got beat by a runner-runner straight flush here, but this one instance shouldn't really affect how you play a hand like this.

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I agree with this-- I understand your play, but I would have bet out more aggressively on the flop.
If you do want to c/r flop or just c/c then thats fine, but maybe lead out on the turn after the cc-- It's usually wise to protect your hand- no matter how indestructible it may seem.--
and the player you are playing against does make a difference, but I think 9 out of 10 times I am betting this flop with TT+ and AK

I know if the guy holding AA had raised I would of folded my trash hands of 53o and I probably would not had won the tournament lol.

_FISHFEET81_ said:

you cant say never slow play, Your not going to bet out when you have the nuts everytime. You gotta induce some bets, here is fine I think you could slowplay it or bet out on the flop. So its 5 handed? and with that flop id be betting out hoping to get a raise and then checking the turn and seeing what villain does, more than likely throwing a bet out and then here comes the 3 bet and possibly the 4 bet with his flush or set of Ks. Everyones different that's why you try different approaches.

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It was heads-up. I would have played it faster multiway, as chances are someone has a king.

Mr Sandbag said:

Generally, you want to slowplay when you flop a monster and need your opponent to catch up to make any money or when an aggro spewtard is in the hand and can be relied upon to make a big bet.

The hand you lost was not a time to slowplay. Betting the flop will not only get your money into the pot when you are ahead, but it will get calls - and perhaps a raise - from anyone with a King, straight draw, flush draw, or even a high pocket pair. It is unfortunate that you got beat by a runner-runner straight flush here, but this one instance shouldn't really affect how you play a hand like this.

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Really? Obv I can see how a small c-bet for value (1/3-1/2 pot perhaps?) may tempt villain to call with virtually anything, or bluff-raise or call/raise with a K. But this is a heads up pot and I really flopped a monster - if this isn't the time to slowplay a flop, when is?

Remember this is a 3-bet pot so ranges here are more narrow.

Slow playing just gets you in trouble, better to win the blinds than to lose on the river.

I agree with zorbs here

If you slow play your top pair you are asking for trouble

EvertonGirl said:

I agree with zorbs here

If you slow play your top pair you are asking for trouble

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Yes but in this case I slowplayed a flopped full house! Totally different dynamic.

Plus I didn't slowplay preflop, so could well have taken down the initial raise.

Beasty2k said:

Really? Obv I can see how a small c-bet for value (1/3-1/2 pot perhaps?) may tempt villain to call with virtually anything, or bluff-raise or call/raise with a K. But this is a heads up pot and I really flopped a monster - if this isn't the time to slowplay a flop, when is?

Remember this is a 3-bet pot so ranges here are more narrow.

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Slowplay the flop when you flop a monster and there really isn't any other strong hand the villain can be holding. Extreme example, but I just saw it happen recently: You have pocket 10s, flop comes 10 10 2 rainbow. Slowplay. You have all the 10's, so there really isn't anything your opponent is going to be holding that will pay you off besides 22 (ironically enough, in the above example, a 2 hit the turn), so you slowplay in hopes that he hits the turn in some way and will be willing to contribute money to the pot.

In your hand, start betting the flop because it's a good possibility the villain will either already have a strong hand (like the King) or is drawing to one (QJ, any two diamonds) and will call your bet if it's reasonable. The fact that it is a 3-bet pot only strengthens my point - if he called your 3-bet preflop, he could very well be holding a King and will be more than happy to start building the pot for you on the flop.

I feel you so much bro! because I do slowplay so often in my opinion, more often than I should probably And then I am just complaining that without river I would be millionaire

When you choose to slow play a big hand either pre or post flop you must realize there is the possibility the villain can suck out on you, that is the risk versus reward of slow playing. That is part of the game, sometimes you are better to take the pot down early. Try not to be to results orientated in your thinking that just leads to tilt.....scorp