Am I Playing This Situation Right

SeaRun

SeaRun

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Today at one table, I have 2 fish sitting 2nd and 3rd seat after me, so whenever I'm on the button or CO, it's their blinds. Both have VPIP in the 40s and 50s with several dozen hands as a baseline.

Except for these players, the table was fairly tight. When I had good hands (middle-high pairs, A-K or A-Q) in position, I'd raise 3-5 bbs depending on my hand, and get called. Flop comes a brick, I'd put out a CB, and get called by one or both of the fish. Turn brings nothing.

Normally I'd check, one or both of them would bet and I'd fold. Sometimes they had crap, sometimes they'd hit something on the board.

This happened numerous times, and I pissed away about 50-60 bbs on the situation.

I see several options:

  • Leave the table (which is what I did)
  • Continue on and hope cards will change and I'll start hitting the flop and get my chips back off them.
  • Start betting and raising even bigger trying to get them off their hands (which I really don't think will work knowing they were playing nearly everything in the blinds).

So, what do you do in this situation?
 
D

DunningKruger

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Well, what I'd do in that situations is silently thank the powers that be for sticking 2 stationy fish in the game with me.

Stakes? This is online right. Full ring? Try to get on their left if you are able to instead of their right. 50+ vpip is pretty tasty. If you flop poorly (no equity) and they're not folding then I don't know why you'd keep betting the flop. Seems they're calling your flop bet often and you're shutting down in response so it's nothing more than a donation. It's interesting that not continuing to make this donation every time you open isn't among your listed options.

Calculating how often cbets need to fold out the opposition to be profitable in multiway pots is pretty straightforward and I'll assume you know how to do it, but it doesn't appear that hoping these players will both get out of the way for you is going to be particularly effective nor do I believe that persisting at it (or for that matter increasing the size of your donation bet) is going to help you out much. Bombing pot sized bets otf is still likely to have a negative expectation overall. I don't generally ever really advise anyone to build a strategy based around hoping multiple players who don't like to fold all decide to fold as a means of winning pots.

Without knowing more about the players you describe, I would simply suggest having what is likely the best hand more often when you stick money into the pot and the crap (referring to all 5 cards ofc) you've usually been cbetting with less often. When these players are frequently calling with a wide range of hands that's pretty weak overall, then the likely best hand could be top pair, or middle pair, or even worse. Just depends on how strong the glue is that's preventing them from letting go of their hands. When you whiff, making a bigger pot and then giving up on it is inferior to giving up on it from the get go (flop). Firing otf to set up a double or triple barrel is a risky decision against the type of player these two appear to be, but if you can hand read any and have reason to believe it's a +EV play (hoping is not a strategy and I've been telling ppl that a lot as of late) then I suppose you can at least consider it. Honestly though you shouldn't need to run any elaborate multi street bluffs against stationy fish to separate them from their money. Just collect more from them when you hit something than you decide to donate back when you don't, and presto. ez game.
 
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Rhinelander

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1. Don't bluff calling stations.
2. If you hit the board hard and it is likely that you have the best hand keep value betting. They'll pay you off.
4. Rule of thumb: Loose players to your right. Tight to your left. Leaving the table under the circumstances you describe is a considerable option.
 
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jarzi85

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In such situations i never try to bluff, most often do break in the game to avoid falling into the tilt. I go out for hour walk. I'm going back relaxed and play :)
 
Arjonius

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This is a profitable situation, but maybe you're not aware enough in terms of how to adjust away from your normal play, especially vs. two opponents.

To build on what DK said, why cbet your full range when you know (a) one or both will call, (b) you plan to give up to turn action unless you improve, (c) the probability of improving is low, and (d) the probability that either opponent out-flopped you is higher than if there were only one opponent?

When you don't think your hand is ahead, just check behind. Fold equity is part of the basis for cbetting. As a result, there's less reason to cbet against players who won't fold; i.e. when you do cbet, do it for value.

Yes, they may notice you only cbet when you have a hand. Force them to do so. Since they're fish, don't automatically assume they're aware / good enough to both notice and adjust.
 
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hffjd2000

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How about double your raise preflop (from 3-5 to 6-10). You want one or zero opponent at all. Simply adjust preflop bet so that youll eliminate problem on latter streets.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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Like others have said, don't bluff and c-bet fish/calling stations. Against fish I will widen my range but if I miss the flop or don't make what I think is the best hand, ill contribute nothing or very little to the pot. Either sit tight and keep seeing flops with a wider range or leave. You will only need to hit 1 or 2 flops well in order to make a good amount from these players.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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So you claim that they are fish, you cant beat them and leave the table.

Really?
 
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Henreiman

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Vs wide range stationy you simply play TAG. Very easy game. From the button specifically I'm trying to play against them IP pretty often so I'm maybe minraising
 
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Princey

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Yeah, betting and raising bigger sounds like the absolute worst thing you could do in this situation. Waiting for the best cards can be tough, but if they're calling everything with everything there's no point in making a play that counts on them folding.
 
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Frankie6636

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I would have played it a bit different, but to each his own!
 
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