Am I bet sizing correctly?

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champ_mc99

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Apologies I dont have poker tracker so I'll try to include as much detail as possible. Some detail I forgot since this was early in the session.

So I hold 4d4c in small blind.

MP raises - 2 players call - so i call hoping to flop a set.

Board comes 8c 9c 8d. Pot is currently $1.50.

I check, MP checks, and late player makes a very small bet of about 45c

This tells me he's probably on a flush draw so I raise to about $2.65.

He calls and turn comes 6d.

I could bet here and spend my last $1.50 into this $7.50 pot but that would give him the right pot odds to call - and fold equity was pretty much out the window at this point.

River comes 2c. Villain makes 45c bet which I call and he flips over QTs.

I checked the pot odds from villain's point of view and it turns out with his QT he was a slight favourite (slightly higher than 50%?)

Obviously I had no clue what he was holding but was sure he didnt have an 8 or a 9. The initial bet made his flush draw obvious.

Even though he was a favourite I did have fold equity on the flop right?

Did I make the right decisions? Was going all in a better choice on the flop to reduce his odds further?
 
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champ_mc99

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Here's another example:

I'm SB with pocket 66s. Everyone folds prior so I raise 3BB.

BB re-raises to 10BB so I call - both our stacks are 100BB.

Flop comes 2 3 Q rainbow.

I check and BB checks.

Turn comes 4. I make a half pot bet so 69c into $1.40.

Villain min re-raises to $1.38 making pot $3.47.

So my outs on the river are two 6s or four 5s to give me trips/straight. Hence a 12% chance means the final pot must be worth $5.47.

Sounds about right so I make the call - unluckily board comes something else.

Check-check on the river and villain flips over AA.

Was this bad play from me?
 
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Napkins420

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I would have folded 66 preflop to villians 3 bet. Why play a pot out of position with a small pair, the only flop we like is one with a 6 on it.
 
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triplstacker

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I'm a beginner poker player so take everything with a grain of salt.

For hand 1:

1) I assume you're playing short stacked as the flop was around $1.50 - That's in the range of 5/10 so you should have a $10-20 buy-in. You have about $4.65 this hand.

If this was a 2/4 game, I probably wouldn't have called the pre-flop at $0.50. SB is a pretty bad position and even if you were defending your blind, it's too expensive to engage IMO.

if this was a 5/10 game, you're too short stacked to be betting 2.65 if your read was a flush draw. You should've gone all-in and put MP in a bad position.

I'm curious to see how you think about my assessment. Cheers.
 
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champ_mc99

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I would have folded 66 preflop to villians 3 bet. Why play a pot out of position with a small pair, the only flop we like is one with a 6 on it.

Set-mining.

In 5nl most players only 3-bet PF with QQ, KK, AA, and AK with AK the only one they have the least difficult of folding (vast majority of the time they can't fold to an all-in).

So if I hit my set - I almost always win their stack unless villain has the most amazing read.

From what I read if you know your opponent can't fold aces/kings and if both your stacks are 8.5 times the bet size, you're making a profit in the long run.
 
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MrSamsa

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Apologies I dont have poker tracker so I'll try to include as much detail as possible. Some detail I forgot since this was early in the session.

So I hold 4d4c in small blind.

MP raises - 2 players call - so i call hoping to flop a set.

Board comes 8c 9c 8d. Pot is currently $1.50.

I check, MP checks, and late player makes a very small bet of about 45c

This tells me he's probably on a flush draw so I raise to about $2.65.

He calls and turn comes 6d.

I could bet here and spend my last $1.50 into this $7.50 pot but that would give him the right pot odds to call - and fold equity was pretty much out the window at this point.

River comes 2c. Villain makes 45c bet which I call and he flips over QTs.

I checked the pot odds from villain's point of view and it turns out with his QT he was a slight favourite (slightly higher than 50%?)

Obviously I had no clue what he was holding but was sure he didnt have an 8 or a 9. The initial bet made his flush draw obvious.

Even though he was a favourite I did have fold equity on the flop right?

Did I make the right decisions? Was going all in a better choice on the flop to reduce his odds further?

I think your play is fine being that you are in the small blind and you do have abluff catching hand. I would ask though what would you have done if he had applied more pressure and overbet or jammed the turn or river? As you pointed out yourself you were behind most bluffs on the flop and that was, considering all things, one of the worst he could have had being just two overs and a gutshot.
My point being I think for the sizing you got away with the profitable bluff catch this time but more daring opponents might put you in tougher situations down the road so it might not be a good habit to get into unless you feel capable of pulling the trigger yourself and repping the 8x or full house on later streets

Hope this helps ;)
 
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Napkins420

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I prefer to set mine with bigger pot odds
 
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champ_mc99

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I think your play is fine being that you are in the small blind and you do have abluff catching hand. I would ask though what would you have done if he had applied more pressure and overbet or jammed the turn or river? As you pointed out yourself you were behind most bluffs on the flop and that was, considering all things, one of the worst he could have had being just two overs and a gutshot.
My point being I think for the sizing you got away with the profitable bluff catch this time but more daring opponents might put you in tougher situations down the road so it might not be a good habit to get into unless you feel capable of pulling the trigger yourself and repping the 8x or full house on later streets

Hope this helps ;)

Sorry I'm actually very confused lol

Do you mean what would I do if he made a larger initial bet or jammed after my 3-bet on the flop?

I would fold to the former (not sure if he hit the flop or not) and probably call the latter given that over half my stack is in the pot and given there is a large range he could have (for any hand besides Q-10 he would have lower equity).
 
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champ_mc99

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I'm a beginner poker player so take everything with a grain of salt.

For hand 1:

1) I assume you're playing short stacked as the flop was around $1.50 - That's in the range of 5/10 so you should have a $10-20 buy-in. You have about $4.65 this hand.

If this was a 2/4 game, I probably wouldn't have called the pre-flop at $0.50. SB is a pretty bad position and even if you were defending your blind, it's too expensive to engage IMO.

if this was a 5/10 game, you're too short stacked to be betting 2.65 if your read was a flush draw. You should've gone all-in and put MP in a bad position.

I'm curious to see how you think about my assessment. Cheers.

Yeah my values were very off.

It was a 2/5c game and there was only one 3BB raise. I just remember the pot post flop being something around 1.50.

But anyway I'm more interested in my post flop play so let's just assume my PF game was fine and somehow the pot ended up being 1.50 lol
 
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quick

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I think your call of the pre flop raise is fine to set mine. But after we don't hit a 4 on flop we can happily fold to the 1/3 pot bet by villain. Now in some cases I "might" consider calling a min bet or like a 10c bet because if we hit a 4, we've got a full house and can jam it in there.

The 1/3 bet by villian seems a bit fishy; it's just a little too small to be pushing off flush draws and a bit too big to be trying to build a pot for a flush draw...esp fishy on a paired board.

Basically I would've folded the flop.
 
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champ_mc99

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I think your call of the pre flop raise is fine to set mine. But after we don't hit a 4 on flop we can happily fold to the 1/3 pot bet by villain. Now in some cases I "might" consider calling a min bet or like a 10c bet because if we hit a 4, we've got a full house and can jam it in there.

The 1/3 bet by villian seems a bit fishy; it's just a little too small to be pushing off flush draws and a bit too big to be trying to build a pot for a flush draw...esp fishy on a paired board.

Basically I would've folded the flop.

Thanks! Perfect advice! :)
 
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spaceslave

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I think your call of the pre flop raise is fine to set mine. But after we don't hit a 4 on flop we can happily fold to the 1/3 pot bet by villain. Now in some cases I "might" consider calling a min bet or like a 10c bet because if we hit a 4, we've got a full house and can jam it in there.

The 1/3 bet by villian seems a bit fishy; it's just a little too small to be pushing off flush draws and a bit too big to be trying to build a pot for a flush draw...esp fishy on a paired board.

Basically I would've folded the flop.
I agree set mine and just let go of the hand otherwise OOP . if you are IP all change and you change.
 
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MrSamsa

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Sorry I'm actually very confused lol

Do you mean what would I do if he made a larger initial bet or jammed after my 3-bet on the flop?

I would fold to the former (not sure if he hit the flop or not) and probably call the latter given that over half my stack is in the pot and given there is a large range he could have (for any hand besides Q-10 he would have lower equity).

The way it was written you didn't 3-bet the flop you only raised, but for the conversation yes what if he then 3-bet you or jammed the turn'/ river.

I would also ask why did you raise the flop even if you assumed he was only on an FD? Because even if that was the case any other FD plus two overs gives him 15 outs and around 60% equity in the hand. A lot of players at those stakes play to get it all in on a draw anyways for the thrill.

I'm only saying I think pocket fours is a good bluff catching call down hand in this scenario and not worth raising, calling in these spots also imply's more strength anyways which will allow you to get to the river cheaper
 
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champ_mc99

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The way it was written you didn't 3-bet the flop you only raised, but for the conversation yes what if he then 3-bet you or jammed the turn'/ river.

I would also ask why did you raise the flop even if you assumed he was only on an FD? Because even if that was the case any other FD plus two overs gives him 15 outs and around 60% equity in the hand. A lot of players at those stakes play to get it all in on a draw anyways for the thrill.

I'm only saying I think pocket fours is a good bluff catching call down hand in this scenario and not worth raising, calling in these spots also imply's more strength anyways which will allow you to get to the river cheaper

yeah i calculated later he was a favorite from the flop even though he never hit it.
 
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