AK in position facing a 4-bet

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sunmingtao

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Hi, what is the +EV play? I just flat called 4-bet because I recently 3-bet him and I suspected he could 4-bet light. My plan was to flop TPTK and get all in.

After some thought, I think the most +EV play should be fold. But isn't it a bit too tight to fold AKs preflop?

Or maybe I shouldn't have 3-bet at all?

Thanks.

$0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)


Known players:
MP2 = ($8.60)
MP3 = ($7.65)
CO (Hero) = ($8.12)
BU = ($4.00)
SB = ($3.61)
BB = ($11.40)
UTG2 = ($5.89)
MP1 = ($6.19)


Preflop: Hero is CO with A
club.png
, K
club.png
.
UTG2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $2.20, Hero calls $1.30.

Flop: ($4.55) 8
club.png
, 9
heart.png
, 5
diamond.png
(2 players)
MP1 bets $3.99, Hero folds, MP1 gets uncalled bet back.

MP1 stats
Hands played: 91
VPIP: 14.29
PFR: 9.89
AF: 1.00
3Bet: 2.63
 
M

mcbluffin311

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I don't see many light 4bets at micros, and those don't look like stats of a player making the play either. Had you seen him 4bet light before? If not, AK is behind to his range, which is probably AA-QQ and AK, maybe JJ, probably not AQ, very unlikely anything worse. Btw, folding is never +EV, its always 0, but it may be your least -EV option here.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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Calling 4b to fold flop with 76bb eff stacks is burning $$$$, either fold to the 4b or jam imo.
 
Last edited:
B

BlueNowhere

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I'd jam but I don't think there is a huge difference between jamming and folding. Calling is just disgusting.
 
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orangepeeleo

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Small 4bet, AA or KK gtd! Wish you'd shoved so I could have been proved right!

You know the reason why cbetting flops is so effective? Because villains will hit the flop approx 30% of the time, the other 70% of the time they're likely to fold when cbet into, like you did here. Planning to call and hit TP in a 4bet pot is planning to lose money.
 
micromachine

micromachine

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folding > shoving imo

and use auto top-up!
 
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stg1969

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Hi, what is the +EV play? I just flat called 4-bet because I recently 3-bet him and suspected he could 4-bet light. My plan was to flop TPTK and get all in.


I'm sorry but thats the bit i found amusing...im not saying the post is invalid, its just amusing to say, you PLANNED, to flop TPTK... Crikey, if I was planning the flop, I'd have planned an AAA flop, or at very least AAK, lol...:D

On a serious note, i'd agree with jagsti, fold or shove... i mean, where were you going with say, and A J 9 flop suited?​
 
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orangepeeleo

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On a serious note, i'd agree with jagsti, fold or shove... i mean, where were you going with say, and A J 9 flop suited?[/left]

If your saying that you wouldnt like getting the money in, as played, on that flop then you like burning money too lol
 
TylerN

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you dont HAVE to 3bet you know
 
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stg1969

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If your saying that you wouldnt like getting the money in, as played, on that flop then you like burning money too lol

Well its irrelevant isnt it mate, because if you read my post i wouldn't be in that position... because i'd have folded or shoved, so I wouldnt have that decision to make...i was asking him what he would do on that flop...

Plus, if ive got AK clubs, and he's 3 bet me, even assuming i did flat call, if the flop comes down AJ9 suited, then obviously i have concerns re the straight, flush and JJ perhaps,or even that he's got AK and had one of the suited flop, so I'm not necessrily always getting it in..not if he has shoved first..
 
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orangepeeleo

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Folding tptk in a 3bet pot is bad.

You might have concerns about the flush or the straight but it shouldn't stop you getting it in because the sprs prob around like 4 so folding tp would be bad.

You were asking what would he do on that flop, the questions irrelevant as it's ace high, that's all that matters if he's calling a 3 or 4bet pre
 
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stg1969

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Folding tptk in a 3bet pot is bad.

You might have concerns about the flush or the straight but it shouldn't stop you getting it in because the sprs prob around like 4 so folding tp would be bad.

You were asking what would he do on that flop, the questions irrelevant as it's ace high, that's all that matters if he's calling a 3 or 4bet pre

Its not irrelevant, cos I'm asking him not you... dont get me wrong, i'm not saying your'e wrong mate, i'm just saying, thats your opinion, I wanted his.
 
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orangepeeleo

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Lol the question implies that it's a bad flop for our hand though, when it's not
 
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GWU73

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Villian is kinda nitty and TIMID. Fold, you are facing QQ+ or another AK.
 
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sagiPOTM

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AK suited dont have to win ffs, if u didnt hit the flop you can call some lower bets to try hiting something like clubs in turn and river in your case, or some top pair but that doesnt guarantees you win the hand...
And ofc you can risk and go all in when he re raised you, coz you had rlly good hand there.
 
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sunmingtao

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I'm sorry but thats the bit i found amusing...im not saying the post is invalid, its just amusing to say, you PLANNED, to flop TPTK... Crikey, if I was planning the flop, I'd have planned an AAA flop, or at very least AAK, lol...:D

On a serious note, i'd agree with jagsti, fold or shove... i mean, where were you going with say, and A J 9 flop suited?[/left]

AJ9s won't be the most ideal flop for me, but I don't think I can fold here.

I don't understand why shove is better than call. Assuming his range is QQ+/AK,what is my equity here?

Remember with 1/3 of his stack in, he is committed so I don't have any fold equity.

I also didn't like my calling play and agree that's a -EV play by all means. But I just don't see how possibly can a shove be +EV play.
 
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sunmingtao

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AK suited dont have to win ffs, if u didnt hit the flop you can call some lower bets to try hiting something like clubs in turn and river in your case, or some top pair but that doesnt guarantees you win the hand...
And ofc you can risk and go all in when he re raised you, coz you had rlly good hand there.

Yes, through this hand I learnt AKs is not automatically a 3-bet hand.
 
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sunmingtao

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Small 4bet, AA or KK gtd! Wish you'd shoved so I could have been proved right!

You know the reason why cbetting flops is so effective? Because villains will hit the flop approx 30% of the time, the other 70% of the time they're likely to fold when cbet into, like you did here. Planning to call and hit TP in a 4bet pot is planning to lose money.

Yeah, quite agree. I know it is a burning money play because even if I hit TP, I wouldn't know if it is good.

Just thought AKs was too strong a hand to fold..Never faced such decision before..:mad:
 
Jagsti

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You have 42% equity v a range of QQ+, AK. There is $3.55 dead money in the pot he has $5.45 behind after his 4b.
 
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Slow Roll Poker

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I'd pop it all in or just call. No sense in making a small re-raise.
 
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BlueNowhere

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By from this forum you mean from cardschat? Where are they from then?
 
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