AK facing 3b/4b at 5nl, 100BB

JCgrind

JCgrind

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Hi all,
Having some serious problems w/ AK and would like to know some opinions on how to play it better. Obviously my move is largely situational, but as a general rule, my current strat is

1. open AK from EP, MP, CO;
- get 3b by MP, CO: generally folding unless theyre super spewy with 3bing, in which case im 4b/ing, getting it in.
- get 3b by Bu, SB, BB: 4b, call 5b shove.

2. AK in blinds facing open;
-flat EP and MP opens.
- 3b CO, Bu opens to counter steals, get value from KQ, AQ, etc.

At these games my playing about 20/18, 3bing TT+, AQs+ AKo for value, although i get that my image is highly irrelevant vs the vast majority of players.
The problem here is this, 3b/4b ranges at these stakes are like KK AA and AK, and only sometimes QQ. On top of that, you generally have absolutely no fold equity. The only argument i can see for getting AK in pre over a 3b or 4b is that your equity is okay because of the dead money in the pot, but youre behind or chopping here 99% of the time (and losing a bunch to rake when you chop).

I guess that means my question is, would it be better to just flat AK vs opens out of the blinds, and only 3b it when villian is a spewtard or is calling all your 3bs light, with the intention of folding to a 4b to all but the super aggros?
and what about when your 3b ITB gets 4b?
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

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forgot to mention that i play shorthanded
 
ohbytheway

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I see you play at pokerstars. There are many nitty guys around who only 4bet KK+. Also many 20/18 would flat a 3bet with AK,QQ,JJ and only 4bet KK+. Some of them would of course 4bet QQ.

It depends much on position. If it it's blind vs button it's more likely that they 4bet QQ but from my experience most of them flat a 3bet with JJ,TT,AQ. Even in situations where players are normally paranoid like BvB or BvBtn many of them would only 4b QQ+ and just flat JJ,TT;AQ and so on.

When a 12/10 opens UTG or MP I would mostly call. Vs CO I almost always 3bet AK from the blinds, vs Btn and SB always.

If I open with AK in EP or MP and get a 3bet from a nit I almost always fold. It may sound ridiculous but if he only 3bets KK+ why should I call OOP or 4b/c.

If I open on BTN I would just flat a 3bet if I think he 3bets TT+ and AQ.



I often hear that a few years ago SH you should push AK hard but I think today most of the regs at the micros are afraid of being coolered so they only push KK+ hard; and QQ+ and AK in situations in which they put the opener on a wider range like BTN opens.
 
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Aldito

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The other player's stats are far more important than your own.

Using your logic:

You could be flatting an 80/60's UTG raise, just because he's UTG.

and similarly

You could be 3betting a 3/3 just because he's in the CO.
 
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JCgrind

JCgrind

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The other player's stats are far more important than your own.

Using your logic:

You could be flatting an 80/60's UTG raise, just because he's UTG.

and similarly

You could be 3betting a 3/3 just because he's in the CO.

Im giving my stats because im talking about situations in which im playing people that arent retarded, and are thinking about what hands they can come over the top of me with for value. this post isnt about getting it in vs tards because my shove range is obv so much wider against them.
I mentioned what i do vs opens from various positions because if a decent player opens from UTG, his open range is like >8%.
this post was for a general method guideline, obv i cant throw out every situation and every other players stats.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

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I see you play at pokerstars. There are many nitty guys around who only 4bet KK+. Also many 20/18 would flat a 3bet with AK,QQ,JJ and only 4bet KK+. Some of them would of course 4bet QQ.

It depends much on position. If it it's blind vs button it's more likely that they 4bet QQ but from my experience most of them flat a 3bet with JJ,TT,AQ. Even in situations where players are normally paranoid like BvB or BvBtn many of them would only 4b QQ+ and just flat JJ,TT;AQ and so on.

When a 12/10 opens UTG or MP I would mostly call. Vs CO I almost always 3bet AK from the blinds, vs Btn and SB always.

If I open with AK in EP or MP and get a 3bet from a nit I almost always fold. It may sound ridiculous but if he only 3bets KK+ why should I call OOP or 4b/c.

If I open on BTN I would just flat a 3bet if I think he 3bets TT+ and AQ.



I often hear that a few years ago SH you should push AK hard but I think today most of the regs at the micros are afraid of being coolered so they only push KK+ hard; and QQ+ and AK in situations in which they put the opener on a wider range like BTN opens.

Agree with this. thanks for confirming it with me.
 
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Aldito

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Im giving my stats because im talking about situations in which im playing people that arent retarded, and are thinking about what hands they can come over the top of me with for value. this post isnt about getting it in vs tards because my shove range is obv so much wider against them.
I mentioned what i do vs opens from various positions because if a decent player opens from UTG, his open range is like >8%.
this post was for a general method guideline, obv i cant throw out every situation and every other players stats.

It's 5nl. How many guys at the table do you think have a HUD?

Then again you do play at Nittystars...
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

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It's 5nl. How many guys at the table do you think have a HUD?

Then again you do play at Nittystars...

at almost any time of the day youre lucky to find a table with an avg. vpip of 30%+ and thats six handed. its nitty as ****
 
Cafeman

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at almost any time of the day youre lucky to find a table with an avg. vpip of 30%+ and thats six handed. its nitty as ****
Eh?

5nlnits.jpg


Anyhoo, with regards to your question, if you 3bet some nit dude with AK, he's most likely going to 4bet you (and you are not happy) or fold (again, not happy). So, you probs want to flat your AK vs him. You get a lot of others who will call lighter, then 3bet for value. 3bet bluff the nit. I don't know. I mean, you can comfortably beat 5NL by only ever 3betting for value, so perhaps don't bother bluffing unless they are super nitty.

If you really believe that stars is full of nits, then just make sure you out nit them postflop if a lot of money starts going in, else just keep taking the pots away. Easy game.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

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Eh?

5nlnits.jpg


Anyhoo, with regards to your question, if you 3bet some nit dude with AK, he's most likely going to 4bet you (and you are not happy) or fold (again, not happy). So, you probs want to flat your AK vs him. You get a lot of others who will call lighter, then 3bet for value. 3bet bluff the nit. I don't know. I mean, you can comfortably beat 5NL by only ever 3betting for value, so perhaps don't bother bluffing unless they are super nitty.

LOL. awks. you must be on in a completely different timezone to me. thats quite funny, havent seen that before!
I like the idea of flatting AK to nit openers and 3b'ing lagtards, while adding in a bunch of light 3bs againts nits opening wide from Btn, CO etc. thanks
 
Cafeman

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LOL. awks. you must be on in a completely different timezone to me. thats quite funny, havent seen that before!
I took that snapshot on a Sunday evening CET. This is Monday afternoon CET:-

5nlnits02.jpg


The reason I know it's not that nitty at 5NL 6max, is because I have played some 10NL recently, and found it to be far from nitty.

As I say though, nits are easy to beat. It's not like you're going to be opening JTs otb and yet again getting 3bet by that aggro reg right? ;)
 
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djpokerman

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A_K

flat call with A_K see what develops on the flop, then prceed cautious
 
dooydoo

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AK is a high medium strength hand. Only vs specific ppl and in specific spots (like short stacked players or if you have a rare dynamic) can you get it in pre for value.

I call the majority of the time because first if we 3b and get 4b we have to fold most of the time so we are wasting AK, might as well 3b 64s. We dont get our 3bets called that often unless its vs a guy who likes to call but we can see that easily and play accordingly. So most of the time we get folds and 4bet so instead of AK, 3b 96s or something. My value 3b range by default is KK+ and rest is bluffs.

Calling also keeps in many worse hands and since you are better than most postflop you will have the advantage whether or not you have position. Most players dont make many mistakes preflop, but postflop is where they make they most and biggest mistakes so exploit them there.
 
WVHillbilly

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AK is a high medium strength hand. Only vs specific ppl and in specific spots (like short stacked players or if you have a rare dynamic) can you get it in pre for value.

I call the majority of the time because first if we 3b and get 4b we have to fold most of the time so we are wasting AK, might as well 3b 64s. We dont get our 3bets called that often unless its vs a guy who likes to call but we can see that easily and play accordingly. So most of the time we get folds and 4bet so instead of AK, 3b 96s or something. My value 3b range by default is KK+ and rest is bluffs.

Calling also keeps in many worse hands and since you are better than most postflop you will have the advantage whether or not you have position. Most players dont make many mistakes preflop, but postflop is where they make they most and biggest mistakes so exploit them there.

What's your overall 3bet %. Because unless it's really small your opponents should quickly figure out that they should be 4bet jamming REALLY wide vs your 3bets. I mean if you 3bet 7% overall jamming ATC should be profitable. Certainly jamming and Ax or Kx would be. If your folding your junk to smallish 4bets your even more profitable for your opponents since they can 4bet/fold.

Point being that a 3bet range of KK+/junk is hugely exploitable.
 
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baudib1

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Agree, a 3-bet range of KK+ and bluffs is ridiculous. When you get 3-bet with AK you should mostly be folding or 4-betting. If their 3-bet range is so tight that you can't get it in pre with 40%+ equity then fold. Calling in position vs. people who 3-bet too light can be fine.

In slightly bigger games, stacking AK for 100 BBs is super standard.
 
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