AK calling all-in??

I don't know if I played this correctly . . . full ring cash game at casino; new player has about $90 in front of him, I'm sitting in late position with $500 or so. He goes all-in pre-flop. I call. He shows a pair of red 9's. Flop, Turn and River are blanks for me. Did I play this right??

I would have probably folded (I know that's probably easy for me to say without being in the situation).

Without a made hand pre flop, unless you have a decent idea about your opponents range, I would say folding is the best play.

I call this all day. Random spazz plays like this your AK has their range crushed.

J_moly88 said:

I would have probably folded (I know that's probably easy for me to say without being in the situation).

Without a made hand pre flop, unless you have a decent idea about your opponents range, I would say folding is the best play.

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what range are you giving a 45BB stack shoving after just sitting down that isnt a call with AK?

Jillychemung said:

I call this all day. Random spazz plays like this your AK has their range crushed.

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duggs said:

what range are you giving a 45BB stack shoving after just sitting down that isnt a call with AK?

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I struggle with live play. No surprise there as I seldom get a chance to play live, less than once a month. I also struggle with assigning unknowns ranges in the types of situations like this.

My default range I'd assign is 99+, AK, AQs, so barring other info, I'd fold here. We're behind any pair, crushed by A-A, K-K, pushing v. AK, and ahead of AQs. Obviously Jilly, Duggs, and probably many others are assigning different ranges to the unknown relative short-stacker in situations like this.

I'd be interested in knowing what range or types of ranges those who would call unknown villain's EP pre-flop shove put him on. Anyone? Also, why would you assign him a range we are ahead of (experience? instinct? etc. etc).

Thanks,

I think you will be marginally behind most times that you call. I would rather give people credit when they first sit down and decide for myself after finding out information about them.

If it turns out they are a maniac, I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to win money against them in future hands.

Call all day.

J_moly88 said:

I think you will be marginally behind most times that you call. I would rather give people credit when they first sit down and decide for myself after finding out information about them.

If it turns out they are a maniac, I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to win money against them in future hands.

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My play too in this situation.

the buy in he sat down with indicates he has no idea what he is doing, i guess id give him 44+ AJ+ KQ+
and even if he is tight having the range you gave him i would still call.
plus occasionally turns up with suited connectors or tiny aces

Big_Rudy said:

I struggle with live play. No surprise there as I seldom get a chance to play live, less than once a month. I also struggle with assigning unknowns ranges in the types of situations like this.

My default range I'd assign is 99+, AK, AQs, so barring other info, I'd fold here. We're behind any pair, crushed by A-A, K-K, pushing v. AK, and ahead of AQs. Obviously Jilly, Duggs, and probably many others are assigning different ranges to the unknown relative short-stacker in situations like this.

I'd be interested in knowing what range or types of ranges those who would call unknown villain's EP pre-flop shove put him on. Anyone? Also, why would you assign him a range we are ahead of (experience? instinct? etc. etc).

Thanks,

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he sat down with neither the min or the max, and open shoved 45BB
assume he is a spazz

Random moron nealy always doesn't have AA and KK in his range for this

Range of 99-QQ,AQ+ it's an easy call. You need 49.2% equity you have 52.9% Start adding some AJ-A10 type hands, maybe KQ to take into account his retardness and it's a snap call.

duggs said:

the buy in he sat down with indicates he has no idea what he is doing, i guess id give him 44+ AJ+ KQ+
and even if he is tight having the range you gave him i would still call.
plus occasionally turns up with suited connectors or tiny aces

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duggs said:

he sat down with neither the min or the max, and open shoved 45BB
assume he is a spazz

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Ok, thanks for explaining your rationale. This is much more helpful than just saying "call, always" or whatever. I have no problem pegging him as a spazz (although it may be in the back of my mind that he could be a short-stacker that's experimenting with playing a little bigger stack). Still, even though I generally peg him as a spazz I still want to assign him a tight range for some reason. Obvious disconnect and likely leak in my live game.

Thanks for the explaination. Being a nit I can't imagine open-shoving that wide, but I'm sure there are probably many that do. Just got to get out of my "nittiness" mode I guess.

BlueNowhere said:

Random moron nealy always doesn't have AA and KK in his range for this

Range of 99-QQ,AQ+ it's an easy call. You need 49.2% equity you have 52.9% Start adding some AJ-A10 type hands, maybe KQ to take into account his retardness and it's a snap call.

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Thanks. I knew the equity of the range I assigned was close to 50/50, but I didn't think it was actually that high. I've really got to get pokerstove working again - think I need to download the new version or something. Also got to get over my nittiness I guess, 'cause I'm generally turning down that small of an edge live. If you add the other hands you mentioned to his range, then yeah, call.

I guess you kind of size up the opponent, there are the ones who only know the basics and sit down with whatever they have, i would probably give them a tighter range, but the pokie player who sits down and chucks a random amount of cash down i would assume is more spazzy. i dont really consider it a close decision almost ever with AK pre against unknown with that stack size.

duggs said:

he sat down with neither the min or the max, and open shoved 45BB
assume he is a spazz

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+1 He could have ATC.

I would fold this to a new player at the table. I assume this is 1/2 NL, not sure what you already invested in this pot, but if you have nothing or a blind in, I would definitely fold. I like to look for better opportunities versus one trick ponies like this.

rcsmith4 said:

I would fold this to a new player at the table. I assume this is 1/2 NL, not sure what you already invested in this pot, but if you have nothing or a blind in, I would definitely fold. I like to look for better opportunities versus one trick ponies like this.

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You're missing out on good value then....this is a call all day long and it's not even close.

Am I missing something here or does this hand not say what stakes we are at, what position villain is in or even how he went all in or if there was any previous action?

I just played a hand yesterday. I 3bet QQ two caller in. flop is low and very dry. I am pretty sure they missed. Turned out they shove their shortstack. they both have AK in their hands. I won a big pot.

That just make me wonder should I shove with AK. It is underdog to any other pairs.

puke said:

I just played a hand yesterday. I 3bet QQ two caller in. flop is low and very dry. I am pretty sure they missed. Turned out they shove their shortstack. they both have AK in their hands. I won a big pot.

That just make me wonder should I shove with AK. It is underdog to any other pairs.

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but explain why someone would shove 22 and not AQ

puke said:

That just make me wonder should I shove with AK. It is underdog to any other pairs.

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This is a really inaccurate way to look at it. At worst you're flipping against any pp < KK, and are crushing any non-pair. Especially live, pp's are only a small part of most players' preflop shoving range. And any player with a clue will not open-shove a monster unless he's absolutely sure somebody will call -- that's throwing away perfectly good value.

Lots of factors to be considered, but in this spot as described, I'm usually calling this all day long. Villain looks like a spewtard.

Of cause no one will shove 22. But for example you shove AK, someone either will fold or if he call usually it is a pair. At least for me I will not call with AQ.
Today someone shoved, I called with QQ. Not to my surprise he had AK.

duggs said:

but explain why someone would shove 22 and not AQ

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I just think people will mainly call shove with pp or something bigger than AQ. Maybe you are right. I need more sample to experience it.

dmorris68 said:

This is a really inaccurate way to look at it. At worst you're flipping against any pp < KK, and are crushing any non-pair. Especially live, pp's are only a small part of most players' preflop shoving range. And any player with a clue will not open-shove a monster unless he's absolutely sure somebody will call -- that's throwing away perfectly good value.

Lots of factors to be considered, but in this spot as described, I'm usually calling this all day long. Villain looks like a spewtard.

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dmorris68 said:

This is a really inaccurate way to look at it. At worst you're flipping against any pp < KK, and are crushing any non-pair.

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This and the two hands in the deck that do crush us our half as likely to appears because we hold two of their cards.

KK+ = 12 combos
But if we hold AK
KK+ = 6combos


The main thing AK gives us is fold equity, think of it as how we make money from straight flush draws. Our equity isn't going to be amazing but we're rarely going to be in really bad shape and the fold equity we get when we raise the shit out of everything is amazing. By the time someone shoves on us we often have to call as we have enough money in the pot from raising it up to dictate a call.

open shove cash game
got time to get him
insta fold