Aggro-fish to my left?

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Tricky123bet

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I played at a cash game table today where I had a pretty aggressive fish directly to my left (after about 50 hands his stats were around 82/56/2, with 14% 3bet).
I know you don't want aggressive players to your left, but since he's a fish I figured I should stay in the game anyway, to try and stack him off. I felt like I had to tighten up because of that. Do you think it's a good table, or is it just too hard to stack him off, since he's going to play with position on me in almost every hand? Would you leave that table or continue playing? Any strategies for dealing with this situation?
 
pescaofish

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Hi, I will only comment on your qualification of the player to your left as a pretty aggressive "fish" directly to your left.
the problem might be your assumption, I have seen very nice players that bluff randomly come out to the same numbers, and even if is a real "fish", I also have seen very lucky fish going away with someone else´s money! :rolleyes:
 
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If he's truly a fish, you have a great opportunity to stack off with him to your left. This is when you can get trappy. You have to be careful not to let too many other players in behind him, but if the situation arises you can just wait for cards and let him hang himself.
 
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I just finished a session where I had an overly aggressive fish on my left side. He took one buy-in from me with something like 9-2 but that was the exact reason why I decided to stay there. Every player was playing only against him but of course the fish was the one who kept winning with pure luck. I decided to tighten up my game a bit and it didn't take me long time until I finally got a hand against him. Easy victory.

So, my advice would be to stay and just wait. Don't let him go under your skin and keep folding mediocre hands. Do not try to bluff, and let him win small pots. Make sure that the big one is the one YOU win with a proper hand.
 
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pietpikel

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I played at a cash game table today where I had a pretty aggressive fish directly to my left (after about 50 hands his stats were around 82/56/2, with 14% 3bet).
I know you don't want aggressive players to your left, but since he's a fish I figured I should stay in the game anyway, to try and stack him off. I felt like I had to tighten up because of that. Do you think it's a good table, or is it just too hard to stack him off, since he's going to play with position on me in almost every hand? Would you leave that table or continue playing? Any strategies for dealing with this situation?
Having an aggressive fish on your left is better than having him on your right. If he is on your right, you are always 1st to act after him. If he is on your left, and you know he will raise preflop, you are last to act. You get to see what the rest of the table does before you act
 
Keith_MM

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Having an aggressive fish on your left is better than having him on your right. If he is on your right, you are always 1st to act after him. If he is on your left, and you know he will raise preflop, you are last to act. You get to see what the rest of the table does before you act

pretty terrible advice , since the rest of the hand when the big money goes in you will be out of position guessing.
 
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The guy's giving away his money at some point. Just take any seat at the table.
 
Masi2197

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You must have patience and take your chance, as you know it is an agrasive fish there is no need to bet make a call even if you have a good hand will be a sign of devilment so that later you finish nailing your knife on that posada of chips
 
TeUnit

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If you could change seats that would be optimal, but otherwise just try to pot control and value own him when you get a hand. Dont try to bluff and dont inflate pots out of position with non made hands.
 
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pietpikel

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pretty terrible advice , since the rest of the hand when the big money goes in you will be out of position guessing.


When the big money goes in, you are the one doing it against a weak fish on your left (you are reraising him, and getting all the dead money in the pot).

If someone re raises the fish before you, you know they have a big hand and you can get away from a potential loss. If you have a monster you can re raise them. Having the fish on your left, lets you see everyone's reaction to his (normally) weak raise. Personally, I would rather act last than 1st, relative to the aggressor/fish.

You now know what the rest of the field has, because they would not limp in with a very strong hand after the fish has made a pre-flop raise. They would re raise to isolate, wanting to play a strong hand as close to heads up as possible.

You should be able to outplay the fish from position or out of position. Your starting range is much better and you should be a better player. The ' big money' is only going in if you put it in, so it depends on how good your post flop play is. Simple answer is .... control the pot size.

Your concern is getting sandwiched between the fish and good player/s all afternoon (they are your danger, not the fish). Being 1st to act all day relative to the fish, is a sub-optimal strategy.

Scenario #1: The fish on your right raises and you look down at AQ suited , you 3 bet him. Players :FOld FOld FOld FOld , Short stack ALL in ! Fish folds, Now what you do ? You are probably pot committed against a range of hands that has you dominated. If you fold you have lost your 3 bet. It's a lose|Lose scenario.

Scenario #2: You limp in with AQ suited knowing the fish on your LEFT will raise. Players :FOld FOld FOld FOld , Short stack ALL in ! Do you want to call an all in, with AQ suited and no implied odds ? Can you risk calling the raise and getting reraised by the fish on your left ? Far easier just to fold the blind at this stage having seen the action unfold ahead of you, and wait for a better situation.

Scenario #3: You limp in with AQ suited knowing the fish on your LEFT will raise. Players :FOld to you .
Now you can re raise him with AQ suited, knowing it's head up and that his range should be far weaker than yours. How much money is going in postflop if you miss the flush draw, A or Q ? Probably not that much ... But you can still continue bet, or check raise him if possible on a complete bluff, if you miss.


Really, Stop playing poker at such a basic level and think about it a little ! Sometimes the (your) obvious (one liner) answer is the wrong one
 
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n3rv

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Just watch how they play more. For example, even though they are aggressive, do they fold to aggression? Do they tilt?

Honestly, if I had enough buy-ins, I wouldn't wait for premium hands. I'd come over the top of their raises and 3-bets with 4-bets all-in in a far looser range (although still slightly ahead of their range).

If they are being aggressive with air, play back with slightly less than air. But do be willing to do things like shoving pre so you aren't out of position post.
 
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pietpikel

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Just watch how they play more. For example, even though they are aggressive, do they fold to aggression? Do they tilt?

Honestly, if I had enough buy-ins, I wouldn't wait for premium hands. I'd come over the top of their raises and 3-bets with 4-bets all-in in a far looser range (although still slightly ahead of their range).

If they are being aggressive with air, play back with slightly less than air. But do be willing to do things like shoving pre so you aren't out of position post.
I agree , but do you want to 3 bet with a weak hand, with 6 players to act after you ?
 
n3rv

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I agree , but do you want to 3 bet with a weak hand, with 6 players to act after you ?

It depends how those players are playing too. I mean if the whole table are calling stations just wait until you are definitely ahead. If they are nitting it up and respect your previous table image then come over the top of them too.

Whatever decision you make that suits the table image should not be made out of fear. You are in position against all of those players and can get away if they show aggression.
 
Keith_MM

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When the big money goes in, you are the one doing it against a weak fish on your left (you are reraising him, and getting all the dead money in the pot).

If someone re raises the fish before you, you know they have a big hand and you can get away from a potential loss. If you have a monster you can re raise them. Having the fish on your left, lets you see everyone's reaction to his (normally) weak raise. Personally, I would rather act last than 1st, relative to the aggressor/fish.

You now know what the rest of the field has, because they would not limp in with a very strong hand after the fish has made a pre-flop raise. They would re raise to isolate, wanting to play a strong hand as close to heads up as possible.

You should be able to outplay the fish from position or out of position. Your starting range is much better and you should be a better player. The ' big money' is only going in if you put it in, so it depends on how good your post flop play is. Simple answer is .... control the pot size.

Your concern is getting sandwiched between the fish and good player/s all afternoon (they are your danger, not the fish). Being 1st to act all day relative to the fish, is a sub-optimal strategy.

Scenario #1: The fish on your right raises and you look down at AQ suited , you 3 bet him. Players :FOld FOld FOld FOld , Short stack ALL in ! Fish folds, Now what you do ? You are probably pot committed against a range of hands that has you dominated. If you fold you have lost your 3 bet. It's a lose|Lose scenario.

Scenario #2: You limp in with AQ suited knowing the fish on your LEFT will raise. Players :FOld FOld FOld FOld , Short stack ALL in ! Do you want to call an all in, with AQ suited and no implied odds ? Can you risk calling the raise and getting reraised by the fish on your left ? Far easier just to fold the blind at this stage having seen the action unfold ahead of you, and wait for a better situation.

Scenario #3: You limp in with AQ suited knowing the fish on your LEFT will raise. Players :FOld to you .
Now you can re raise him with AQ suited, knowing it's head up and that his range should be far weaker than yours. How much money is going in postflop if you miss the flush draw, A or Q ? Probably not that much ... But you can still continue bet, or check raise him if possible on a complete bluff, if you miss.

so your default play is to limp in , agro fish likely limps behind 1/3 of the time and then you likely also get multiple callers and possibly an isolation raise leaving you in a shitty position multiway ,or he raises your limp and possibly then gets multiple callers wanting to see a flop against this maniac.Now you are left guessing how multiple callers are going to react to any reraise you put in.

Its far easier and more profitable to play in position against the maniac , 3 bet wider than normal and be willing to stack off wider against him preflop and if you get 4bet by another player play against them as you would normally when they 4bet.
Really, Stop playing poker at such a basic level and think about it a little ! Sometimes the (your) obvious (one liner) answer is the wrong one[/B]

Lol at scenario #3 trying to check raise bluff a maniac, they are just as likely to shove over as fold to your bluff.

Yeah , i guess having played profitably for 10 years without having to deposit , I obviously don't know what i'm doing.
 
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pietpikel

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so your default play is to limp in , agro fish likely limps behind 1/3 of the time and then you likely also get multiple callers and possibly an isolation raise leaving you in a shitty position multiway ,or he raises your limp and possibly then gets multiple callers wanting to see a flop against this maniac.Now you are left guessing how multiple callers are going to react to any reraise you put in.

Its far easier and more profitable to play in position against the maniac , 3 bet wider than normal and be willing to stack off wider against him preflop and if you get 4bet by another player play against them as you would normally when they 4bet.


Lol at scenario #3 trying to check raise bluff a maniac, they are just as likely to shove over as fold to your bluff.

Yeah , i guess having played profitably for 10 years without having to deposit , I obviously don't know what i'm doing.

Do you live in a shoebox ?

Aggro fish limps 1/3 of the time. Which world are you living in? Aggro fish is raising at least 40 to 50 % of the time.

Why don't you read my post properly, or is it just too complicated for you ?

Personally I think you are clueless. Just keep sitting behind that fish and keep plodding along. 3 bet wider and get re popped regularly by the decent players to your left for all I care. Go play them out of position for the rest of your poker days. Regarding #3, it is just a scenario. But I guess your game is so ABC that you've never considered it, let alone tried it.

I am sure you are a huge winner in cash. I know talent when I see or hear it and you sound like a 2 bit nit grinder., without imagination or a clue.
 
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Keith_MM

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Aggro fish limps 1/3 of the time. Which world are you living in? Aggro fish is raising at least 40 to 50 % of the time.
read his stats , he's 82/56 meaning that of the hands he gets involved in , he's calling roughly a third of the time and raising 2/3 of the time.It isn't hard to see him limping behind with his real trashy hands in the hopes of flopping big that even a maniac wouldn't raise.Your strategy lets him potentially limp in and fold when he misses and or stack you when he hits and the same for everyone else that limps in behinds him.
Personally I think you are clueless. Just keep sitting behind that fish and keep plodding along. 3 bet wider and get re popped regularly by the decent players to your left for all I care. Go play them out of position for the rest of your poker days.
LOL , its obvious you don't know what you are talking about because you have to resort to insults. IF YOU HAVE THE MANIAC ON YOUR LEFT YOU ARE OUT OF POSITION POSTFLOP AGAINST HIM FOR ALL BUT 1 HAND PER ORBIT

Regarding #3, it is just a scenario. But I guess your game is so ABC that you've never considered it, let alone tried it.

I am sure you are a huge winner in cash. I know talent when I see or hear it and you sound like a 2 bit nit grinder.

this was a blog i was running here
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok.../putting-money-where-mouth-252331/index3.html

this is my current blog on a staking website pretty much devoted to tracking down scumbags /scammers and preventing them from scamming others since i don't play as much now.However , this shows my occasional results throughout it
Keith's blog

and this was a recent days play post in that blog +£200 in 24 hours at 20nl on microgaming.

7RB4Cva.jpg


why don't you post some links to your results to validate how profitable you are
 
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pietpikel

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read his stats , he's 82/56 meaning that of the hands he gets involved in , he's calling roughly a third of the time and raising 2/3 of the time.It isn't hard to see him limping behind with his real trashy hands in the hopes of flopping big that even a maniac wouldn't raise.Your strategy lets him potentially limp in and fold when he misses and or stack you when he hits and the same for everyone else that limps in behinds him.

LOL , its obvious you don't know what you are talking about because you have to resort to insults. IF YOU HAVE THE MANIAC ON YOUR LEFT YOU ARE OUT OF POSITION POSTFLOP AGAINST HIM FOR ALL BUT 1 HAND PER ORBIT



this was a blog i was running here
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok.../putting-money-where-mouth-252331/index3.html

this is my current blog on a staking website pretty much devoted to tracking down scumbags /scammers and preventing them from scamming others since i don't play as much now.However , this shows my occasional results throughout it
Keith's blog

and this was a recent days play post in that blog +£200 in 24 hours at 20nl on microgaming.

7RB4Cva.jpg


why don't you post some links to your results to validate how profitable you are
I don't play online. To much cheating. Hard for me to post live results. Actually if you look back at the post history, I think your first post was pretty derogatory. You make a statement of opinion like it is fact.

Wow a whole 200. Don't spend it all at once
 
Keith_MM

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lol ....so you can't prove that what you are saying is profitable. Nothing derogatory about saying that it was terrible advice . And lol about thinking that no cheating occurs in casino's. where team play/collusion would be hard to detect as hole cards are unseen by the casino but easily discovered online by the pokersites who have complete hand histories for every hand played and can easily program algorithms to detect play that deviates from the expected. like folding KK pre without even betting when someone they play regularly with has AA.
 
TheNutz4You

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if you can snag a seat change at the same table and get on his left is your best bet. if not, tighten up and wait for a spot. keep pots small until it's time to pounce.
 
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