Advice wanted to get deeper in MTT

I have consistently been getting into the money in the low buy in MTTs. What I am having trouble with is after the money bubble bursts.

My strategy up to this point is to play a fairly tight game, playing only top 50 hands, the play is so bad during the early stages of these tourneys, that I will call all-ins when I have an overpair to the board, knowing they are stacking off with TPTK most of the time. I c-bet almost all the time and more than 80% of the time the player(s) fold to it.

Should I tighten up way more after getting this many chips? Should I not call short stacks all ins with AJ+. Also, should I stop c-betting after a pre-flop raise if I miss the flop? After the bubble, these seem to get called more. I think I am starting to answer my own questions, but any input would be appreciated.

lol ya towards the end there i think that u got the hang of it. maybe mix up ur play a little after the bubble.
keep playing how u have been in order to make the money but once u do make it start to change it up to catch people of guard. because the players that make it no matter if theyre donks or solid players tend to play better later on

I think about this as much as anything else in Poker. My latest mindset is to become more aggressive (push those times you think you are 50-50 or even sometimes 40-60 - vs the big stack) during the post bubble stage (I assume your chip stack is below average for this example). You've already cashed now the mindset needs to be "go for the gusto". Unless you make it to the final three players that $ jumps are (in most cases) not substantial enough to matter in the near term.

BTW this is not easy and I fight this every day (glad to hear i'm not alone)

I hope for some big hands to take advantage of the over aggressive players that are playing too loose because they made the money. Occasional blind steals can keep your stack healthy while you wait for the monster, Luck is the key.

A friend once gave me probably the best insight on tournaments that I have ever heard. 3 things are required to make top 3 finishes in tournaments. You need to get lucky a few times, you need to avoid getting unlucky a few times, and you have to have REALLY good timing. Decisions are easier I believe in tournaments than in cash games, and if the 3 things I just mentioned go your way, eventually you will have big scores and thus show big profits. Just keep making the best possible decisions at the current time, and results will follow.

Also, it sounds like maybe you need to try to accumulate more chips BEFORE the bubble, so that post bubble you have a stack that you can work with to get you to the FT. This may result in fewer cashes, but you will have deeper runs because of it.

GL on deep runs.

ok I'm far from an mtt pro, but pretend the bubble doesn't exist (unless you're rediculously close and already shortstacked). You want to finish deep? Play to win. Push every edge. If you think you can get your money in 50-50 early, do it. Build up a decent chip stack and then you can use the chips accumulated to build even more. Then if you reach the bubble as a big stack you can push around the shorter and mid-size stacks that just want to cash.

Oh and it takes luck to make it. All you can do is make sure you're pushing the edges you have. The one time they hold is the time you'll make it deep.

zachvac said:

ok I'm far from an mtt pro, but pretend the bubble doesn't exist (unless you're rediculously close and already shortstacked). You want to finish deep? Play to win. Push every edge. If you think you can get your money in 50-50 early, do it. Build up a decent chip stack and then you can use the chips accumulated to build even more. Then if you reach the bubble as a big stack you can push around the shorter and mid-size stacks that just want to cash.

Oh and it takes luck to make it. All you can do is make sure you're pushing the edges you have. The one time they hold is the time you'll make it deep.

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lol I'll sum this up for zach in two words. "fck cashing" aka win the whole thing

edit: a good example is found recently in the November narcotics thread where Rex made a +ev move

Also, should I stop c-betting after a pre-flop raise if I miss the flop? After the bubble, these seem to get called more.

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Well after the bubble, the concentration of donks and fish are no where near the amount in the beginning of the tournament, there is still donks and fish after the bubble, but generally your playing with better, smarter, more deceptive players.

This doesn't mean stop, but it means recognize who your dealing with, and recognize when you have the advantage. If a tight good player is calling your raise sometimes its good to be check especially if you know they are deceptive. If the big stack is to the left of you and he's calling often well than maybe you should check the flop when you whiff once in a while to see what he wants to do, you can't try to win every pot you raise IMO, people start to take it personally/mentally, and they call you just to outplay you and thats the LAST thing you want. If your whiffing and they keep calling than check when you have over pairs or good hands when you raise and check raise them. If you c-bet representing a hand when you whiff don't be afraid to fire multiple shells with someone that just calls. With people that you know can call your c-bets, don't just c-bet to c-bet, thats not going to work, you have to decide what hand your trying to represent on that occasion before you c-bet and bet as if you have that hand.

Also realize alot of people loosen up after the bubble especially short stacks. You'll have a lot of people going all in being that they cashed and a lot more people willing to see the flop to see if they can hit because some people don't care if they make bad decisions preflop/postflop after they've officially cashed. Its almost like they're are relieved they made the money and are ready to return to donk/fish mode.

You just want to stay active to keep your m in good shape, waiting for a situation where you actually have a hand against someone so you can double up. Obviously this means you are going to have to open up your range of starting hands, top 50 hands goes out the window here because you don't have time to wait for this after the bubble if you are trying to win. You have time to wait but you need to stay afloat by stealing. Once you get your chips up from tight play, don't continue to wait for the big hand, this is when you open your range of raise hands up to those that are not in position to play post flop with you -- short and middle size stacks, and out of position players.

Once it gets to the bubble you should play super aggressive. You can gain so many chips by pushing around weak players trying to fold into the money. After the bubble you should play aggressive and steal the occasional blinds. After you make the money you should be playing for the win because all the money is in the top 3. That means if you think you are in a flip you should flip and try to get lucky. Stay aggressive and if you get lucky enough and avoid getting unlucky you will make it further.

Try to double up early on and then play very tight or even sit out until the first break. Than start loosening up. The closer you are to the end, the more agreesive you should be...

Bubble

I like to play really tight agter the bubble. A lot of players will loosen up after the bubble I have noticed and this tends to cause players to drop like flys. I guess they figure they are in the money so they have nothing to lose. But usually the real money is at the final table and for me after the bubble is like starting a whole new tournament where onyl the top nine get paid. The ninth position become my new bubble so I continue playing my game. My game is usually tight and only playing quality starting hands. Try this and you will see. I think there is nothing wrong with calling shortstack all ins if it doesnt cost you too may of your chips and its just you and them. Avoid large pots after the bubble unless you have top five hands or have hit an unbeatable board. Also, be aware of the chip leader....the cards always tend to fall their way and I try not to get mised up in any big pots with them.

that strategy, in my opinion is not a championship strat, what has worked for me is to loosen up and see more flops, but be reasonable tight after the flop. People will get the impression you are playing every hand, especially if they are using the program things that do that kind of thing, and will start paying you off. You gotta gamble to win at tournament poker.

barry greenstein said that he's always racing to be the chip leader in the table's he's in. To win an MTT i think you have to have that mindset - pushing small edges and being generally aggressive.

but this doesn't mean you should be reckless, at most probably take slightly -ev gambles

Have you tried playing more aggressively right before the bubble? A lot of people will really tighten up as they approach the bubble. This may be the time to open more pots with raises as people will be more prone to fold until that bubble bursts. This may allow you to build your stack a bit more and allow you to compete later on in the tournament.