Advice for beating 2NL (aka the unbluffables)

playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
They call to the river with bottom pair and 4 over cards out. should I just use this to my advantage by letting them bet into themselves?
When I did this they seem to manage to high a second pair.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Don't understand the question. If they call too much bet bigger and more often when you can beat 4th pair and smaller or not at all when you can't.
 
olliejjc16

olliejjc16

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 18, 2011
Total posts
521
Chips
0
dont bluff, wait for good hands hit hard and watch the money fly in!
 
C

credsfan03

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Total posts
649
Chips
0
You just need to play tight abc poker.
 
playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
Stop trying to bluff and valuebet them to death. Easy money.

You just need to play tight abc poker.

Ok so tight and value bet them


thanks guys.

Some of them do things that make you just scratch your head. But hit it lucky other times and call people fish (I have turned off my chat box now)
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Total posts
12,123
Awards
5
Chips
1
Don't understand the question. If they call too much bet bigger and more often when you can beat 4th pair and smaller or not at all when you can't.

Stop trying to bluff and valuebet them to death. Easy money.

dont bluff, wait for good hands hit hard and watch the money fly in!

You just need to play tight abc poker.


^^^^^All of these work:) ...I personally would not bluff these types of players period...
 
LD1977

LD1977

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Total posts
3,091
Chips
0
Merciless cbetting also works, 2nd barrel often needed though.
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Don't c-bet or 2nd barrel without a hand, just a waste of money at 2nl when they call down with Ace high
 
LD1977

LD1977

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Total posts
3,091
Chips
0
Not in my experience. Cbetting hard is a money maker. Might vary from site to site though.
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
bluffing can work at 2NL, trust me, I tried. Pick your spots though, don't expect them to fold TP or anything :)

But yeah, just make easy money by value betting. Don't check back TP on the river for example.
 
olliejjc16

olliejjc16

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 18, 2011
Total posts
521
Chips
0
c-betting and bluffing is fine in 2nl but its player dependent, cbetting can definitely be profitable, bluffing not so much but each has their uses depending on the situation
 
playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
^^^^^All of these work:) ...I personally would not bluff these types of players period...

c-betting and bluffing is fine in 2nl but its player dependent, cbetting can definitely be profitable, bluffing not so much but each has their uses depending on the situation

Finally I can reply! (65 post limit thingy is annoying)

Whats cbetting? is it checking so they try and rob the pot but then you go over them with a big raise? or is it when they check and you bet to win the pot because they are weak?


I had a motto (heard it) , when I hit my cards i win, and when my opponent misses I win.
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
cbetting or a cbet is short for 'continuation bet'. If you raise pre flop, and then bet on the flop, that's a cbet, because you're continuing to bet your hand.
 
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Total posts
592
Chips
0
You're only going to see two types of players....

Fish and weak tight TAGs

Almost exclusively vbet the extremely loose-passive fish mercilessly, until they suddenly raise back, then just fold unless you have a good 2 pair or better. Baluga theorem is highly valuable here. Don't worry about the occasional suckout where they trap you into betting on the river into their 'hard-earned' nuts, if you had vbet them mercilessly with at least top pair, they are generally not getting a good price to draw you out already. Bottomline is, they have already lost by calling your vbet on flop.
Throw in occasional cbets on dry dry boards though, you gotta show that you are capable of folding after firing a flop bet sometimes

Against TAGs...you can bluff, try baluga on them, raise the turn on scary boards, for example if a new high card comes or a straight and a flush is impending given the texture. You'll get quite a bit of folds i promise.

Win rates of >15bb/100 hands is fairly easy to achieve in 2nl..FR or 6max

(I have won 17bb/100 over 90k hands as of today, 70k in FR and 20k in 6max)
 
playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
cbetting or a cbet is short for 'continuation bet'. If you raise pre flop, and then bet on the flop, that's a cbet, because you're continuing to bet your hand.
Oh lol I do that anyway, if i see someone raise preflop and then they check its basically saying 'IM WEAK TAKE MY PF RAISE'
So I do it to show no weakness if they reraise Ill let it go, unless I have outs.
You're only going to see two types of players....

Fish and weak tight TAGs

Almost exclusively vbet the extremely loose-passive fish mercilessly, until they suddenly raise back, then just fold unless you have a good 2 pair or better. Baluga theorem is highly valuable here. Don't worry about the occasional suckout where they trap you into betting on the river into their 'hard-earned' nuts, if you had vbet them mercilessly with at least top pair, they are generally not getting a good price to draw you out already. Bottomline is, they have already lost by calling your vbet on flop.
Throw in occasional cbets on dry dry boards though, you gotta show that you are capable of folding after firing a flop bet sometimes

Against TAGs...you can bluff, try baluga on them, raise the turn on scary boards, for example if a new high card comes or a straight and a flush is impending given the texture. You'll get quite a bit of folds i promise.

Win rates of >15bb/100 hands is fairly easy to achieve in 2nl..FR or 6max

(I have won 17bb/100 over 90k hands as of today, 70k in FR and 20k in 6max)

I bet when the flop is dry and in position after people check. but sometimes they check the flop with the nuts. so if they call my bet I usually check to see what they do.
 
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Total posts
592
Chips
0
Oh lol I do that anyway, if i see someone raise preflop and then they check its basically saying 'IM WEAK TAKE MY PF RAISE'
So I do it to show no weakness if they reraise Ill let it go, unless I have outs.


I bet when the flop is dry and in position after people check. but sometimes they check the flop with the nuts. so if they call my bet I usually check to see what they do.

You cant worry about getting hit by a nut on the flop. Remember, if YOU hit the nut instead, he will pay you off. So if either of you run into a nut hand, it's a breakeven proposition over the long term. The important is thing is to get value from your toppair versus their 2nd and 3rd pairs they will doggedly cling on to while you fold yours after maximum one street of value.

Of course, don't obliviously fly into a wall by 'vbetting' tptk on a connected monotone board that you have NO part of, lol. I shouldnt need to say this.
 
playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
Ok so I just played a hand, pocket queens, (this is in 2nl)

raise from mid position (it was 3 handed)
raise 12c, got called flop came Q,3,4 diamond heart, heart
i bet small, 4c, guy on the button called, but the guy to my right shoved.
I called with my trips (it put me all in), he had two pair, 3,4 but the guy on the button had ace 5, and the turn was a 2. so I lost

Did I make the right call? I mean villain with ace 5 had 3 outs, I just need the board to pair, so i figure we were pretty even.
 
vinnie

vinnie

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Total posts
1,208
Awards
1
US
Chips
50
Ok so I just played a hand, pocket queens, (this is in 2nl)

raise from mid position (it was 3 handed)
raise 12c, got called flop came Q,3,4 diamond heart, heart
i bet small, 4c, guy on the button called, but the guy to my right shoved.
I called with my trips (it put me all in), he had two pair, 3,4 but the guy on the button had ace 5, and the turn was a 2. so I lost

Did I make the right call? I mean villain with ace 5 had 3 outs, I just need the board to pair, so i figure we were pretty even.

Code:
 390,096  games     0.021 secs    18,576,000  games/sec

Board: Qd 3h 4h
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	80.876%  	80.88% 	00.00% 	        315495 	        0.00   { QQ }
Hand 1: 	18.425%  	18.42% 	00.00% 	         71874 	        0.00   { A5s, A5o }
Hand 2: 	00.699%  	00.70% 	00.00% 	          2727 	        0.00   { 43s, 43o }

Hmmm, you got the money in as an 81% favorite. You got unlucky. That's all. Did you make a bad call? Nope. Did you play correctly? Also, no. Don't bet 4c into a pot $0.37+ when you flop top set. The idea (at 2nl) is to make big pots when you have big hands. You make big pots by making big bets. You got lucky that the third person had two pairs and shoved for you.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Code:
 390,096  games     0.021 secs    18,576,000  games/sec

Board: Qd 3h 4h
Dead:  

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     80.876%      80.88%     00.00%             315495             0.00   { QQ }
Hand 1:     18.425%      18.42%     00.00%              71874             0.00   { A5s, A5o }
Hand 2:     00.699%      00.70%     00.00%               2727             0.00   { 43s, 43o }
Hmmm, you got the money in as an 81% favorite. You got unlucky. That's all. Did you make a bad call? Nope. Did you play correctly? Also, no. Don't bet 4c into a pot $0.37+ when you flop top set. The idea (at 2nl) is to make big pots when you have big hands. You make big pots by making big bets. You got lucky that the third person had two pairs and shoved for you.
YES!
 
playtheman

playtheman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Total posts
239
Awards
1
Chips
1
Code:
 390,096  games     0.021 secs    18,576,000  games/sec

Board: Qd 3h 4h
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	80.876%  	80.88% 	00.00% 	        315495 	        0.00   { QQ }
Hand 1: 	18.425%  	18.42% 	00.00% 	         71874 	        0.00   { A5s, A5o }
Hand 2: 	00.699%  	00.70% 	00.00% 	          2727 	        0.00   { 43s, 43o }

Hmmm, you got the money in as an 81% favorite. You got unlucky. That's all. Did you make a bad call? Nope. Did you play correctly? Also, no. Don't bet 4c into a pot $0.37+ when you flop top set. The idea (at 2nl) is to make big pots when you have big hands. You make big pots by making big bets. You got lucky that the third person had two pairs and shoved for you.

I see, I guess I was trying to slow play it, but now that I think of it, 4c into .37 is tiny. Although i was hoping someone would try and steal it.
Ill bet higher in future
edit: nice presentation lol
 
Top